Sensible Topic Enoch Powell

People are right to be worried about the scale of immigration (in my opinion) but that does not automatically make them racists does it ?

And out of interest and as nara asked, why quote six year old Telegraph article ?
 
nara said:
I'd rather question your motive for digging out a six year old Telegraph article.
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The date of the article is irrelevant, it was simply the first one I found with a full transcript. As for motivation, I'm sure you're aware there have been various attempts to rehabilitate Enoch Powell in recent times, surely worthy of a sensible debate?
 
Him Her said:
Go on then, tell me it was a racist speech and why.

Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech - Telegraph
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Progressives and leftists, apart from when they are actually denying race exists, use race to trump all other arguments by attempting to shame people with legitimate concerns by claiming that they are racist. It gets used so much that no-one is actually sure what racism really means now apart from that it garners much applause on Question Time. Most of the time the same people will find any hint of national pride racist and British culture something that should be suppressed, whilst espousing the values of everyone else's way of life.
 
Just a quick google found this...

"A poll at the time suggested that 74% of the UK population agreed with Powell's opinions and his supporters claim that this large public following that Powell attracted helped the Conservatives to win the 1970 general election"

rehabilitation for the 74% also required?

I must say though... this was all a little before my time... :D


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D1GG3R said:
I must say though... this was all a little before my time... :D
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I was just getting interested in politics at that point. There was a lot of racial tension about back then, bit of a misnomer really, racial/racist etc. but racist is easier to yell than ethnicicist I suppose. After all, we wouldn't want true meaning to get in the way of rubbishing a coherent argument now would we?

Anyway, I don't recall Enoch saying much else that had racial connotations (however you looked at it) but he was a maverick and perhaps it was just a convenient moment to give him the boot?

On balance I tend to think the speech wasn't racist and neither was he, just an intelligent bloke who had a way with words that didn't go down too well with the upper echelons.

Back on track I hope?
 
Interesting thread H, If only people listened to our Enoch, perhaps the world would be a better place by now. Do carry on H you have my fullest attention. @Spectre my office if you please. :)
 
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@Him Her Having read the speech from your post, I do not believe he was racist and tend to agree with miggy!

I didnt realise I went 'off track'... sorry!

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I meant in general M8 - the question was whether the speech was racist :)

Triggered in part by whenever immigration comes up as a subject Enoch seems to feature somewhere lol
 
D1GG3R said:
Rehabilitate? Why? :what:

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@D1GG3R the "rehabilitation" spoken of does not refer to Enoch Powell at the time of the speech, which is backed up by the support his speech received at the time.
It refers to the fact that in later years Enoch Powell was vilified as being a Racist.
Strange that really ! because Mr Powell's constituency at the time was in Wolverhampton South West which contained one of the largest migrant communities in Britain at the time and he always managed to be elected.
Also, during his term as Minister of Health he encouraged a large number of Commonwealth immigrants into the understaffed National Health Service. Prior to this, many non-white immigrants were often obliged to take the jobs that no one else wanted (such as street sweepers, night-shift on assembly production lines) and this was at a time when these migrants were often paid considerably less than their white counterparts. There is no doubt that by easing non-white immigrants into what at the time were considered prestigious forms of careers, he boosted the confidence of the immigrant population and helped lay the foundations of a future immigrant-descended permanent Afro-Caribbean and Asian middle class in Britain.
A Racist ???
How misread can someone be on the basis of one speech which many take completely out of context !! In fact, 30 years later Ted Heath said that Powell's remarks on the "economic burden of immigration" had been "not without prescience." (a state of mind or level of expertise that allows for excellent foresight and planning.)
Enoch Powell was an extremely intelligent man and graduated from Trinity College Cambridge as a full Professor of Ancient Greek at the age of 25, he was a published poet and he studied Hindu and Urdu at the School of Oriental Studies University of London because he felt that his long-cherished ambition of becoming Viceroy of India would be unattainable without knowledge of an Indian language, an ambition he did not attain because India gained Independence in 1947. He also spoke every European language fluently including Welsh and of course Ancient Greek and Latin.
He was also only one of two men during WW2 to rise from private to brigadier (the other being Fitzroy Maclean). He was offered a regular commission as a brigadier in the Indian Army, and the post of Assistant Commandant of an Indian Officers' Training Academy, which he declined.
Unlike most politicians today Enoch Powell believed in trying to improve living conditions for all and to keep Great Britain Great.
 
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becouse he warned everyone how the uk would be london muslim mayor thats what i mean not every ones opinion but mine just wish the world would stop this bombing killing each other and all live in peace but dont think we will ever get that
 
bazleybloke said:
becouse he warned everyone how the uk would be london muslim mayor...
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Can't remember that bit tbh (and I was around at the time). Either way are you suggesting that Zac Goldsmith should have won?


...and what were you searching for to unearth a three year old topic for your first post?
 
no he didnt warn about a mayor but he did warn about immigants coming over and having more rights than uk cant even fly our flag with out being called racist its ok we all have views i replied to a discussion thats it didnt know id be targeted like a laughing stock its the do gooders in this country has messed this country up my family as many others have died in wars to protect this land and its ok if you wanna reply with your comments england first as always
 
bazleybloke said:
no he didnt warn about a mayor but he did warn about immigants coming over and having more rights than uk cant even fly our flag with out being called racist its ok we all have views i replied to a discussion thats it didnt know id be targeted like a laughing stock its the do gooders in this country has messed this country up my family as many others have died in wars to protect this land and its ok if you wanna reply with your comments england first as always
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What about us Scots, do we not count?
 
course the scots count

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and i didnt look to see if it was a 3 year old post

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course the scots count got good friends in scotland but they want to be independent not belong to england
 
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