Relatives ESA has been stopped

[silverdale]

We've just had the sister in law on the phone distraught crying her eyes out, they've just found out that her husband been taken off ESA after an interview the other week. They phoned her to kindly inform her and the good news. Her Husbands in a bad way with all sorts wrong with him ( too many to list 24/7 pain) after an accident about 15 years ago. Tbh, he's a mess and can hardly walk and tablets leave him half p"ssed everyday.

She said they explained all this in the interview and how he cant even lift the kettle or get upstairs on his own. She does everything from getting him up in a morn , all his meds, to putting on his socks, Christ, some days she nips home and does his dinner. Basically without her doing for him he'd be snookered he'd need carers coming in. Financially this will cripple them their income will half overnight and there's mortgage coming out of that.

The sister in law use to do 40 hours a week but she has had to take a drop in hours hence the low wages to help him in a morning and finish early to do house chores. It's a proper shame really cause she a real hard working woman never ill (unlike us men) and he's a nice chap but finds it demoralising, he's just been dealt bad cards.

So as from today his ESA will stop, they also get DLA which is about to change to PIP so I'd take a guess that that will stop at the same time. They were told in the phone call told to claim Universal Credit straight away. I know nothing about these benefits so I couldn't offer her any advise but I said I would ask see if someone does. I did a bit of reading up just and what I read was (not sure if it's right) , if you claim universal credit and they appeal he cant go back on ESA if they decide in his favor?. Can someone point him and her in the right direction on that matter. Also there is a form "Disagree with the decision" but you can phone them if you want. Should they use the form or make the call and do it over the telephone ?, which is the better option ?. Tbh, the more I read the more I get confused. I'm still shocked they took him off it so I don't know what state you have to be in to claim fecking hell.
I just wonder how all these EU members go on when they come over here with every ailment under the sun making full use of out system, do they get the same knocks backs ?
Rant over

 

[shaun127]

Just asked the wife (works for CAB) Dla wont stop at the same time due to him losing esa but, he will get a letter telling him his dla is ending whenever it is due to end and if he wishes to apply for PIP to fill in the form, he will continue to receive DLA until he is accessed for PIP, once they have decided whether he will get pip or not his dla will stop and he will be transferred onto PIP on whatever rate they have decided or receive a letter telling him that he has been unsuccessful

Regarding his ESA stopping? I take it he was in support group? He needs to appeal but 1st he should ask for a mandatory reconsideration.Tell them to phone up and tell them he wants this. if he is unsucessful with teh man recon then tell them he wishes to appeal the decision . He will get appeal forms etc. I would take them to his local CAB or if Possible welfare rights group, get them to help and see if he can get a welfare rights officer to attend the appeal
If you does not get a successful decision when transfering from DLA to PIP he should appeal that decision also.
Fuckin nightmare for disabled people it really is. The stories I hear from my wife are so terrible and disgusting in our country in this day and age.

I wish them all the best,

Challenging an ESA decision - mandatory reconsideration

 

[shaun127]

read here

Mandatory reconsideration FAQs

Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) appeals

 

[silverdale]

Thanks for the reply Shaun and say thanks to your missus as well.
I just spoke to the sister in law, she said he applied for PIP (swapping over from DLA) last week over the phone so he's waiting on the forms to fill in to arrive.

As for support group?, he wasnt in any. On his last medical some years ago he was paid a visit by an assessment specialist doctor at home and was basically signed off indefinite, he's that bad. Thing is , hes that high off string meds who'd employ him ? Hes unsafe and be deemed a liability in any office or shop floor.

He has been through every medical department door there is with operations galore and years of pain clinics and they've basically said thats it theres nothing else we can do, it's all about managing his pain and looking after yourself the best you can.

This money wasnt for any luxuries it was to keep their heads above water nothing bar Bill's and food but now they've just sunk their ship I feel so sorry especially for her. It breaks my heart especially when you see these lot walking up the street at 7am with a can in thier hand.

Sorry to pester Shaun but when you get chance tonight can you ask your wife about the universal credit.
The guy on the phone said to her , "If your short of money or likely to be make a claim straight away for universal credit" but from what I read up for her, if you do this you cannot go back on ESA. So, you appeal but first make a claim for universal credit because it might take weeks, the decision gets overturned, and then you have to make a fresh claim. Bit of a t+ats underhand trick if I may say myself telling her that

 

[shaun127]

Hi Shaun's wife here. We get this all the time at work and it's terrible. Firstly, if you seek advice and support to make a written man recon request (forms on ,gov.uk benefit reconsideration) if he has enough medical evidence to throw at them he may get his ESA re-instated after the man recon, rare but it does happen.
There will be no payment of ESA during the MR. If it is not successful you need to put in an appeal on form SSCS1, again on gov.uk or at a local citizens advice. 2 choices, wait for the MR result, then phone ESA to ask for payments to be re-instated (backdated) at the basic rate of £73.10 per week NB he will only be paid this if he has an unbroken contribution (NI) record then he will get 365 days contribution based ESA, an appeal could take longer than that to be heard!! In our area, if you have representation from our local welfare rights it's taking 18 months for appeals. His wifes earnings will mean his payments will stop unless he has won his appeal and been placed in the support group, it may be worth a call to ESA to check his entitlement to contribution based ESA before choosing this route as he may end up with no payments.
OR sign up for UC, this is a joint benefit, his wife will also have to sign a claimant commitment. If his DLA/PIP has std care or mid rate care he will be eligible to have a carer, if his wife works for less than £124 a week she can also claim carers allowance, this will exempt her from looking for more work under UC rules, she may be able to argue she has caring duties to exempt her from looking for work even if she can't claim CA. He must submit sick notes (need these to reclaim ESA too) to be exempt from looking for work. UC will assess the same as ESA did, the same form and a medical. If he wins an ESA appeal UC must abide by the decision of the appeal panel - ie if he gets support group he will be eligible for the LCW&WRA group in UC getting an extra £366 per month. You are right, once on UC no going back.
Sometimes, working people are better off on UC, the things to watch for are if his wife gets paid every 4 weeks instead of monthly then once a year no UC will be paid as they get 2 wages in on UC period (bad, I know). A lot of people get into debt on UC as the payments take a month to process, you can have an advance but this reduces your payments until it is paid back. There is no support for mortgage payments on UC except a loan which we do not recommend

 

[shaun127]

Me again, All I'll add to wife's post is its complicated shit and they try to get you at every turn creating obstacles to stop you getting your benefits. I'd defo go to local CAB and get professional help with all this. Get to the doctor and get him on side, see if he will write a letter supporting his claim with medical evidence and send it to them as extra medical evidence. Only send copies of medical evidence not originals, keep everything and make and keep copies of any original forms you fill in

 

[silverdale]

Thanks for all the help to say it's complicated is an understatement. They will definitely need to get help on this one.


Oh and Shaun ?

get the password changed, you don't want the better half to look through some your history and the sh!t we talk about , , Jesus, she'll wet herself and probably say , "How &^$*&^ old are you lot ??",

My sister in law says a big thank you

 

[shaun127]

No problem, Hope it works out for them.

 

[silverdale]

I just spoke to them and he has had contribution based ESA since the start. He has had (which I didn't know) 2 medicals the first been about 12-13 years ago were he was turned down and won on appeal then about 5-6 years were he had a specialist examine him at home and he was granted indefinite ESA.Then for a girl about 20 to take it all away and overrule a specialist. She has a box the size of an arm chair with every drop of medical evidence he's ever been given.

This appeal letter might have to go via ParcelForce

 

[D 8 RCS]

Silverdale, it sounds like they are "changing him over" from ESA to UC (Universal Credit). Swapping over to Universal Credit is an evil situation because DWP do not do any of the switching automatically, you MUST apply yourself and there is no back dating of moneys to the end of the ESA. All benefits used to be done by using your National Insurance number, this is not the case with UC. It MUST be applied for on line where you will effectively set up a "membership" with your email address and a password being your identification, so tell him to apply on line ASAP and make sure that the email address and password that he uses are either very memorable or are kept somewhere safe. The other down side to UC is that it is paid monthly and one month in arrears. I got this information from the head of the Luton and Dunstable Universal Credit Department at a meeting where she was explaining what would happen, as Luton and Dunstable are the last area to start introducing UC and one thing that she kept stressing was that there would not be any communication other than through the email address and password.
As for the DLA as Shaun127 says that is a completely different entity and will not stop at the same time................also, remember that there are people who are disabled who work full time but still receive their DLA.
Disability Living Allowance is exactly what is says, it is an allowance to help cope with the extra costs of coping with a disability.

 

[silverdale]

But if his health issues and needs are worse and have been going down hill for donkeys years then in my eyes how the f*ck can some 20 odd year old health worker make that call ?. He should be medically assessed and not base it on can you make a f88kin cup of tea. As far as I'm aware he is appealing first via the Mandatory reconsideration form and he is attaching all evidence. I called this morning to kinda give them a chin up and believe you me the doctors reports read like War & Peace, they have kept I'd say 85%-90% of all records and appointments since day one plus the DWP's last report done by their independent expert outlining his problems..


They were telling me this morning that the one problem is, his GP. When the DWP wrote last time to his GP for a heads up he basically said unknown to most questions. Now the fact of the matter is, he was under (and has been for years) numerous outpatient departments receiving treatment from orthopedic specialist, physios, 5 years at pain clinics and he's more scans than a NASA probe I've nicknamed him Chernobyl or the Duracell Bunny.

Apparently his GP doesn't note these outpatient treatments down so his GP just puts down on the DWP form, "UNKNOWN" which is " because he hardly goes to see him he's snookered. I mean, why would he keep knocking the door down when all avenues have been exhausted ?? that's just wasting a doctors valuable time. His meds are virtually set in stone now because he spent 5 years finding the right combo at the pain clinics. He was receiving treatment only late last year and he has letters from 1 specialist all saying all avenues have been exhausted its all about management.

For me as he's getting older he's deteriorating. I told him this morning, become an alco and a smackhead , they'll put in on a plate for you.

 

[D 8 RCS]

Silverdale, I know exactly what you are saying as I have been through it all and am still going through it (waiting for a Mandatory Reconsideration at the moment) but I would advise your sister in law's husband to concentrate on applying for Universal Credit because the intension is to put all ESA claimants on UC and as I said they do not back date payments and at the moment the waiting time for a Mandatory Reconsideration is 12 weeks plus, which tells you how many peoples lives they are f*cking up.
Your last comment about the alco's and smackheads is unfortunately fairly true and in many cases make them entitled to the fully disability award which usually only achieves giving them more money to spend on booze and drugs. The homeless ones out on the street are now realising that they can go to the Job Centre and register it as their "home address" which then entitles them to all the Benefits available, this is great for the genuine "fell into bad times" homeless but there are many out there who have no intention of changing their lifestyle.

 

[silverdale]

I called today again for a bit of moral support again as thier both on serious downes as they recieved the report made by a registered nurse.

After reading it beggars belief, my sister and law said the the nurse has answered questions that were never asked and made assumptions and on a few particular questions and she said she has actually lied.

Now she doesnt like using that word but after been told by the sister in law what they were asked and how they replied it is the total opposite I have to agree with her.
The nurse asked her husband :
"Do you need help with your socks and shoes in a morning?"
The sister in laws replies was
"Yes ,I do that for him he cant do it"

The nurse then wrote:
"Needs help with socks and shoes in a morning"
Then directly underneath the nurse has wrote

"Can get dressed on his own in a morning and can wash himself".

That question was never asked she asked socks and shoes.

Nurse "Can you drive a car ?"
Bro in law "Yes I can but I dont due to illness and meds and havnt done for a good while".
Nurse in report
"Is able to drive a car and owns a car"

He doesn't own the car it's in his wifes in her name he never drives these days so its hers and due illness hasn't done for donkeys bar the very very rare 1/2mile trip if needed and that rare and I mean rare.
Nurse:
"Can walk 30 metres from car to GP surgery"
There was no mention of this in the interview or who drives there or park up were from his Doctors. He can hardly walk to the downstairs toilet at home nwvermind to the GP surgery so he would not answered that way.

Basically, shes answered questions never asked and made assumptions on others it's so flawed it beggars belief. I know from them both that they would not have answered like that.
I honestly did not know the system would lie like that. They have a friend of a friend intervening now who's a local welfare officer so let the professionals take care of it.
I'm sure they'll find one or two holes in her report. It disgusts me it truly does.

 

[shaun127]

Silverdale. thats the norm pal nothing unusual and theyve been getting away with to the point of people dying because of it. Its a fucking disgrace. Ive seen my wife take bags of shopping to people because theyve had there disability benefits stopped and had nothing coming in.
One example, A guy I knew worked all his life as a mechanic, He got paid off as he was a bit slow and couldnt do all the new stuff and he was also suffering badly with arthritis and carpel tunnel syndrome . He was a proper old school mechanic in his late 50's.
Anyway he had to sign on for work and they sent him on a basic computer course .
He couldnt type or use his hands so they suspended his dole payments., No Money or nothing.
He was burning his clothes on the coal fire to keep warm. I knew him as he used to drink in same village pub as me. so i took him home for a meal one day and the wife got all the forms etc, She filled them in and we discovered that he couldnt really read or write.
Long story short he got DLA and incap/esa for a couple of years backdated so he got quite a tidy sum. then after the two years they stopped his money again and the whole cycle started again, wife filling in forms, waiting and eventually getting somewhere. Two years later stopped again. this time he just walked out his house and posted the keys through the letterbox , nobody heard from him since

 

[VectorZ]

It's truly heart breaking mate. I'm so sorry to hear they have to go through this. Life must be painful enough just to get by, and then this kind of hurt is thrust upon them. So undeserved and unjust

I really hope they come out the other side with a better result mate. Chin up and all that..... don't let the w@nkers win.

 

[silverdale]

Its truly sad Shaun and such a sad story its just a sad state of affairs were all in. The health service is under huge pressure, it's ready to implode and it will.

What's more sad about my bro in law is, in his last medical he was granted indefinite ESA after a medical by a specialist. The nurse has therefore said he needs have changed for the better and he can do more when infact his health has only got worse. A proper medical would confirm this not been asked can you make a f%%kin hot drink.


A doctors receptionist said to me a few months back that, "This job can make you racist". Her surgery is bursting at the seems with our EU members signing up to the surgery the latest been a single mum of 6 aged mid 20's unknown dads the usual d.o.b.1st Jan who also needed an interpreter more time expense Her address is a 4 bedroom house just round the corner.
I'm not saying this is the cause but it certainly doesn't help. She or her partners all 6 who arent around have put nothing into our failing NHS system, that in the long run can not be right.
Oh and she didn't ask to be seen


She demanded

It makes my urine produce skin burning steam

 

[Hippie]

Good on yer for getting involved m8

The assessors are incentivised to put everyone in the WRAG group if they possibly can.

I have been through this a few times and even gave up and went on the WRAG thing for a few months after one assessment. We all agreed pretty quickly that I shouldn't be there and they weren't equipped to deal with the situation we'd been pushed into at the WRAG office, and offered me a meeting once a month at first which they attempted to replace with a monthly phone call but I refused that and requested we carry on as directed by the assessors and the system lol.
The forms arrived for another assessment after 3 months of me "playing along" and attending the WRAG as directed. I got reassessed and reassigned to the support group again without having to attend an assessment interview in a little less than 3 months (so my wrag ordeal was only for about 6 months and consisted of 5 x 40min meetings in that time)

Have you thought of involving your MP ?
I would give it a try, considering he's been signed off indefinitely
Things usually happen pretty quick if you can spell it out for them and they take an interest.

 

[silverdale]

Funny you should mention MP. The last time he had to go to a tribunal he went to his local MP who stepped in. He still had to go to in front of the appeals panel and won but I have a feeling the MP put some weight behind his claim. I'm going round most days now trying to help a bit just chat because most days he's on his own with the sister in law out to work. She's activity looking for a night job now cleaning or bar work weekend work so she will be on a possible 14 hours a day and a possible 7 days a week. She one strong woman, far stronger than some, possible 2 jobs kids and house to look after and its cleaner than mine !!!.

As far as I can gather from the wife chatting to her on the phone last night they are challenging the decision and will do all the way and good on them. There's a strong family base amongst us so they wont starve or go without we have all promised them that.

 

[dazling]

Tell them to ask for special esa not universal credit 1st thing she should do is put in an appeal

 

[silverdale]

There's a welfare officer involved now a friend of a friend who the same as Shaun's wife (thanks) deals with it on a daily basis. They are appealing as I speak so I'm more there for moral support and do what I can money wise. It's always good for someone to knock see how you are even if you can make em laugh for 1/2 an hour or so just a cheer up and let them know people are looking out for them. There's nothing worse just been sat there pondering the worse. Hopefully they'll get their just deserves and, I just hope that some day that nurse who interviewed the bro in law isn't sat in the same chair he was and then some other nurse dishes out the same lies as she did, what comes around, it's a magical thing karma.

One thing they told me from the interview that proves she lied was, he had an operation some years ago and he mentioned it. The nurse then asked were , which Hospital. He told her then mentioned after the op he was then refereed to another hospital's pain clinic were he attended as an outpatient for 4 years taking numerous concoctions of tablets which he named. She then piped up "I use to work at that Hospital on the wards"

In her ESA report she wrote
"Had operation, after op refereed back to GP no further treatment"

4 years of pain clinics nurses and doctors and 3 MRI scans which were mentioned never written up in the report as though it never happened.

One section says
"He thinks he has ............. wrong with him" what ? he thinks ? he was diagnosed with it. How can he think if a specialist is treating him ?. Honestly you couldn't seriously make this report up its as though they've got the names mixed up on it.