Armistice Day poppy-burning demo 'sickened' observer

[K]

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For me, the rights or wrongs of this particular demonstration are irrelevant. Whats important is the fact that they have the right to hold their views, exactly as I have the right to hold my views and you have the right to hold yours !

The trouble is, any sane British citizen wouldn't burn poppies in the street and chant die die die..

If someone enters this country they should live by our rules.. Yes they should be allowed to express themselves through freedom of speech.. and probably be allowed to do the above but..

what they did is immorally wrong. You can't accept sweets from your next door neighbour and then shove a knife through his/her heart... People in this country have morals..

I can't see how you can punish someone who expresses freedom of speech which we supposedly hold close to our heart.. apart from breeching the peace or slander or whatever..

 

[DrRu62]

So our boys spilled their blood so that we could live in a democracy giving us the right to protest? What we're skirtin round here is that this is way beyond protest,as is any violence or desecration.Was it ok for the students(minority) to smash the place up - no -those proven to be guilty will be done - because they have gone way past the boundaries.Didn't a dude get done for peeing on an ex servicemans grave? Was you outraged then or did u just think it was a laugh? Bottom line is its well out of order and should be punishable

 

[nozzer]

The trouble is, any sane British citizen wouldn't burn poppies in the street and chant die die die..

Perhaps, but who said they were sane ?

The right to freedom of speech is a two edged sword. If we want it then we have to accept the bad along with the good, so even the insane have the right to rant ?

As it happens I dont think these people were insane, just very politically savvy when it comes to knowing how to get themselves into the news.

Regardless of whats been said previously, this was a political statement. It wasn't an attack on the British military or even the British public - its plain and simple a politcal statement designed to get the maximum column inches for a particular point of view into the press !

If someone enters this country they should live by our rules.. Yes they should be allowed to express themselves through freedom of speech.. and probably be allowed to do the above but..

Indeed they should and, afaik, even in this extremely emotive case they did so. As I mentioned previously, if you want to get a message across to a maximal audience then the only way to do it is to use a stunt which will get you into the news. How many column inches do you think this issue would of gotten if it had been a straightforward demonstration without the press orientated stunt ?

what they did is immorally wrong. You can't accept sweets from your next door neighbour and then shove a knife through his/her heart... People in this country have morals..

hmm, a difficult issue. When it comes to getting into the news these days it seems there are no morals. If you do things without some sort of stunt then your effectively ignored so whats the alternative ?

I can't see how you can punish someone who expresses freedom of speech which we supposedly hold close to our heart.. apart from breeching the peace or slander or whatever..

You cant !

As I said, if you want freedom of speech then you have to accept the bad with the good.

 

[nozzer]

Bottom line is its well out of order and should be punishable

Bottom line is that they made damn sure they acted within the law in order to perpetrate a politically motivated press grabbing stunt !

 

[charlie senator]

I'm all for freedom of speech for British people who consider these isles to be their one and only homeland. They can say whatever they like and i will listen.
However i AM against people with dual nationality or another country they call "home " having a say in how MY country is run.
It wouldn't happen in any business and it shouldn't happen in our politics.
Can you imagine a sub contractor on the Olympic Village in London demanding that the plans be changed because he didn't like them ?
It wouldn't happen any where else in the world and that's what i admire about the rest of the world . They have the balls to stand up for their country , customs and believes and not bend over backwards to change their lifestyle to suite people who don't even class the country as their homeland.
It's easy for a lot of our "countrymen " to go back " home " if this country goes tits up but what about the people for whom this IS home ?

 

[MikeS]

Regardless of whats been said previously, this was a political statement. It wasn't an attack on the British military or even the British public - its plain and simple a politcal statement designed to get the maximum column inches for a particular point of view into the press !

it was not the slightest bit provocative, antagonistic or aggressive

i think your are mistaking tolerance with freedom of speech

this country tolerates these scum bags when enforcing freedon of speech when infact they should be deported back to their origin countries and see who gives a flying f**k

these people are filth who take advantage of a fair and tolerant society by inciting hatred towards the very people who die to protect the very laws these morons exploit

it is sick !

these morons should try expressing their extreme views in other European countries and see how far freedom of speech takes them cos i guarantee most of em will be in hospital beds suffering severe beatings

 

[zamzing]

I love the way some of you think that because the parents or grand parents were originally from a different country that those people are not British.
Well guess what, we are, and if you dont like it, You can f**k off!!!!
As for those nutters i'm guessing that they are british also, so chuck a few of them in prison and that'l be that.
And anyone who thinks that our soldiers were sent to war to fight for our freedom of speech needs to wake up.
We should ALL be protesting against the nobs who sent the soldiers there!!!

 

[MikeS]

freedom of speech is democracy you moron

arab countries rebelling against leaderships cos they want freedom to choose & vote

libya not a democratic society & they kill people who voice their opinion
same as sudan was the same in egypt

so what do you want ?

freedom of speech but without democracy ?
a stable social environment to live with in healthcare & education but attack / dishonour the soldiers who uphold this countries beliefs

hatred towards british soldiers who fight in iraq & Afghanistan is contradictory in the very sense they have brought democracy and the right to vote for a leader

caled ignorance and ill educated brain washing imo - get them on the future jobs fund cleaning streets and learn how to work for a living

 

[Raven24]

I'm all for freedom of speech for British people who consider these isles to be their one and only homeland. They can say whatever they like and i will listen.
However i AM against people with dual nationality or another country they call "home " having a say in how MY country is run.
It wouldn't happen in any business and it shouldn't happen in our politics.
Can you imagine a sub contractor on the Olympic Village in London demanding that the plans be changed because he didn't like them ?
It wouldn't happen any where else in the world and that's what i admire about the rest of the world . They have the balls to stand up for their country , customs and believes and not bend over backwards to change their lifestyle to suite people who don't even class the country as their homeland.
It's easy for a lot of our "countrymen " to go back " home " if this country goes tits up but what about the people for whom this IS home ?

Hammer. Nail. Bullseye.

If this country goes tits up who is left holding the can for repair ?

John Prescott was on Top Gear the other night, and my god what an arse he is, a proper bellend. And it makes you think it's no wonder we're in such a state when people like him were left in charge of running this country.

 

[nozzer]

these morons should try expressing their extreme views in other European countries and see how far freedom of speech takes them cos i guarantee most of em will be in hospital beds suffering severe beatings

Is that really what you want to see on the streets of Britian ?

Police beating up people that may have an opinion different from you ?

Where exactly does that end ?

What happens next time YOU decide to make a protest against something YOU may not like ?

Surely the sane way in any society to deal with such things is simply to allow people to demonstrate for whatever reason they choose, however idiotic, (as long as they stay within the law whilst doing it) and then allow the vast majority of us to simply ignore the event. Why exactly does violence have to be used on a non-event that is no threat ?

 

[MikeS]

why you going off topic

you fail to see the bigger picture here

you dont care that british soldiers die for our right to freedom and democracy however you feel strongly that there is room for extremist views in this country

student protests got them nowhere but on the end of a hiding from riot police strange how these extremists dont even get touched by police for their abusive and antagonist behaviour

that is what is wrong with this country

we tolerate ill educated scum bags

 

[digidude]

when these extremists are 'protesting' the police shouldnt even bother turning up

the protests wouldnt last long

wonder how long id last outside cardiff mosque wearing a morphsuit holding a sign stating that (i think) islamic suicide bombers are faggots whose soul will rot in pig sh!t?

id be arrested and carted off, or beaten to a pulp, pretty quickly

 

[Raven24]

Is that really what you want to see on the streets of Britian ?

Police beating up people that may have an opinion different from you ?

Where exactly does that end ?

What happens next time YOU decide to make a protest against something YOU may not like ?

Surely the sane way in any society to deal with such things is simply to allow people to demonstrate for whatever reason they choose, however idiotic, (as long as they stay within the law whilst doing it) and then allow the vast majority of us to simply ignore the event. Why exactly does violence have to be used on a non-event that is no threat ?

He's not saying that m8, he's saying if they were to carry out those same hypocritical 'protests' (not protests btw, racial hate and incitement to riot more like) in other countries it wouldn't be stood for. Especially not by the people of those countries. Yet we sit by and idly allow it. There's also a big difference between freedom of speech and incitement to hatred. Example; if I said some mods on dw are idiots that contribute as much to the forum as they have clue about anything and that's nothing - is that not my right to free speech ? YES. Would I be banned outright for saying such things in public or at the very least infracted against ? YES. So you see there's a pretty big difference between what is free speech versus speech that will land you in trouble.

Same for the mods who edit sigs too, are what people put in their sigs their own personal form of free speech ? Yes they are - are they edited and censored by some mods whenever they don't like what's put down ? All the time. And that's just on this forum. So in all fairness you can't speak of tolerance and free speech if you know it's not upheld and when you know full well based on this forum alone that there's a clear line between what is free speech tolerated and stuff that will have backlash attached.

 

[oneman]

But forums are not a democracy and there is not 'freedom of speech'. They are a dictatorship and its your choice if you want to parcipitate under the sites rules or not.

 

[nozzer]

why you going off topic

you fail to see the bigger picture here

On the contrary, i'm actually trying to widen the debate to include the bigger picture rather than concentrating on a piffling little non-event !

you dont care that british soldiers die for our right to freedom and democracy however you feel strongly that there is room for extremist views in this country

The question begs as to which is the more extremist/fundamentalist view. Allowing these things to happen and simply ignoring them, as the majority do, or sending the Police in with the specific aim of causing injury to people who hold a different viewpoint. Personally, I find some of the views expressed in this thread far more extremist then burning a few poppy leaves. As I said, the event itself is piffling - barely worthy of discussion. The real thing worthy od discussuion here is the over-reaction of a few that I have no qualms in describing as fundamentalists !

student protests got them nowhere but on the end of a hiding from riot police strange how these extremists dont even get touched by police for their abusive and antagonist behaviour

Unfortunately for the students, they were hijacked by the rent-a-mob crew whos' only aims were to have a grand day out by starting as much trouble as they could.

that is what is wrong with this country

we tolerate ill educated scum bags

Indeed, I would tend to agree with that sentiment although i'm guessing we may mean different groups of people !

 

[D1GG3R]

been watching this thread over the past few days.... one thing confuses me a bit..

the freedom of speech thing!!!

there is stong argument that these people have a right to protest under the freedom of speech etc etc..

now... are these not the same people that say the flag of islam will one day fly over buckingham palace / 10 downing street and the uk will be ruled by sharia law??

is freedom of speech not forbidden under sharia law?

so... freedom of speech is ok??? for now??? until sharia??? then we as christians / westerners are not allowed to protest against sharia law??? because sharia is our new law and freedom of speech is forbidden???

am i making sense??

hmmmm ??????

 

[MikeS]

this is what i am pointing out

they want the queen to to turn to islam or kick her out of the country - freedom of speech but not free concerning religious beliefs

you speak to any immigrant in this country and they will tell you they are here cos it is the best system in terms of healthcare, education, freedom, policing & social security

but these morons are not happy enough claiming benefits and free healthcare / education but they want this country to be an islamic state

quite simply move to indonisia, somalia, sudan where islam is high up the table in religious beliefs

might not be any benefits but who cares eh !

 

[nozzer]

but these morons are not happy enough claiming benefits and free healthcare / education but they want this country to be an islamic state

Your generalising to the extreme !

I've met many Muslims and none of them have ever expressed a view that they want to turn the UK into an Islamic state. Dont make the mistake of taking the views of a few extremists to be the views of all Muslims !

All religeons have their extremists, its certainly not something that is unique to Muslims. We have crackpots of every faith in this country !

 

[gav12345]

Your generalising to the extreme !

I've met many Muslims and none of them have ever expressed a view that they want to turn the UK into an Islamic state. Dont make the mistake of taking the views of a few extremists to be the views of all Muslims !

All religeons have their extremists, its certainly not something that is unique to Muslims. We have crackpots of every faith in this country !

ive got friends that are muslims and say that some mosque's are teaching for a islamic state in the uk and to try and not make it into a big thing but do it slowly and break the islamic rules to do it until it becomes a islamic state.

this is from 4 of my friends that i work with that comes from different mosque arounds the country online. they do not have this feeling and feel that its wrong but thats them just telling me and their friends as well.

so if they are teaching such a thing in some mosques where does it stop then????

 

[2old4this]

The father of a Muslim extremist who burned poppies on Remembrance Day served in the Royal Navy as a police officer for 14 years,

Poppy-burning Muslim¿s father served 14 proud years in the Navy