Sensible Topic Solar panels.

danforth

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From an item on Newsnight :-

The EU accuse China of "dumping" cheap solar panels in europe, subsided by the chinese government, to maintain employment.

So, we get cheap panels, for the green people, at chinese expense. What's the problem ?

To create prosperity in a former east german town, an EU or german government grant was used to set up a factory to manufacture panels.
Exactly which source wasn't clear, but there's probably little difference. The factory is fully automated, employs around 10 people,
mainly in quality inspection. There must be peripheral employment, but even with that included, it would hardly bring prosperity to the area.
The factory can't compete because of the chinese subsidy, and is demanding EU action. An EU decision is to be made within two weeks,
or hopefully before the sun goes out. The proposed EU response is a 38% import tax to redress the balance and keep the factory viable.

Meanwhile, a factory in the UK makes frames which support the chinese panels, currently employs around 30 people, with expected expansion to 65, assuming current sales continue. Making frames for chinese solar panels is not my idea of "high end manufacturing", our supposed salvation, but it is employment. If the 38% import tax is imposed, to save the german factory, the panel price will increase in step. UK factory sales will suffer, due to increased cost, and the future of current employees is uncertain, quite apart from the planned expansion.

Overall, if the EU decides in favour of the tax, it means an increase of 38% if you want a solar panel, and lost jobs in the UK.

I realise there will always be winners and losers, but is our horse going to be chopped off at the knees again ?

Any bets which way this will go ?............................... And, who collects the 38% tax ?
 
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If we can't figure out that a local subsidy is a good idea to offset the tax then we need a good slapping...
 
this is a study i done last year....if we put every solar panel we placed on peoples houses in the uk in the last twelve months....we could have supplied africa with the medicine they needed and saved kids lives......unreal !
 
this is a study i done last year....if we put every solar panel we placed on peoples houses in the uk in the last twelve months....we could have supplied africa with the medicine they needed and saved kids lives......unreal !

Seriously this is an actual study you carried out last year??
 
this is a study i done last year....if we put every solar panel we placed on peoples houses in the uk in the last twelve months....we could have supplied africa with the medicine they needed and saved kids lives......unreal !

Supply each kid with a bicycle generator.............win-win.:)

Sorry, this is the kind of vague comparison many people make, the only connection being money.
In that case, solar power is a better investment, uncomfortable as the thought may be.

Sufficient funds are available for both. If we stopped pointless intervention in other peoples equally pointless conflicts,
even more would be available.

Back to solar panels, don't they work in China, they must have vast areas not yet covered by smog ?
Of the subsidized panels, 70% are sent to "green" europe, whilst China is still "developing" with coal powered generation.

Global warming / climate change will continue (or not, who really knows), dictated by economics and politics, not possibly suspect science.
I believe it's called SNAFU.
 
Sufficient funds are available for both. If we stopped pointless intervention in other peoples equally pointless conflicts,
even more would be available.

Why break the habit of a lifetime? Apart from the obvious interventions many years ago the West has been poking it's collective nose into the Middle East since WW2 ended. Changing boundaries, assuming the delivery of democracy and human rights would change what is essentially a tribal region. Even now some would prefer intervention despite the evidence from Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan to name but the obvious.

Moving swiftly back to solar panels - we are talking PV here? You know, them super-green things that generate shed-loads of pollutants in their manufacture? Thought so...
 
Yes, PV, didn't put that in the title to avoid use of wicki by some (doesn't give useful response).

Funny how the "greenies" are selective with the advantages. Still, one more MP than UKIP, sad really.
 
Economy with the truth is profitable in the longer term ;)

When we got easy access to the internet, I thought the truth would be easier to find.
I still can't get access to, even apparently unbiased, raw data, in an understandable form.
I gave up, once I realized that truth has little value, only perceived truth counts.
Cynical maybe, but created by experience, and unlikely to change.:)
 
When we got easy access to the internet, I thought the truth would be easier to find.
I still can't get access to, even apparently unbiased, raw data, in an understandable form.
I gave up, once I realized that truth has little value, only perceived truth counts.
Cynical maybe, but created by experience, and unlikely to change.:)

Why did you expect so much from the Internet? When everyone can post anything it should be blatantly obvious that the majority will be nonsense?
 
Why did you expect so much from the Internet? When everyone can post anything it should be blatantly obvious that the majority will be nonsense?

It wasn't too bad before blogs etc, was mainly financed by porn, and largely apolitical. Now, the sheer volume of nonsense conceals any truth.
Add commerce to the mix, now the advantages are more widely understood, and "truth" is hard to find.
Still, as said, apart from personal satisfaction, it's not a lot of use anyway.

The "Truth" vs "Sun", "Mirror" etc......................no contest.
 
It wasn't too bad before blogs etc, was mainly financed by porn, and largely apolitical. Now, the sheer volume of nonsense conceals any truth.
Add commerce to the mix, now the advantages are more widely understood, and "truth" is hard to find.
Still, as said, apart from personal satisfaction, it's not a lot of use anyway.

The "Truth" vs "Sun", "Mirror" etc......................no contest.

You missed the point of my Mark Twain quote?

The media presents information according to the view(s) held by the editor(s). The only difference between traditional media and the Internet is that the latter publishes considerably more. It's still down to the individual to do their own research and identify that which is most likely to be the truth.

As always, the truth is determined by examination, testing, challenging and accepting that whatever you knew was 'true' yesterday may need reviewing tomorrow in the light of better information.

All the Internet does is provide a channel...

...it's still down to how you question and conclude.
 
You missed the point of my Mark Twain quote?

The media presents information according to the view(s) held by the editor(s). The only difference between traditional media and the Internet is that the latter publishes considerably more. It's still down to the individual to do their own research and identify that which is most likely to be the truth.

As always, the truth is determined by examination, testing, challenging and accepting that whatever you knew was 'true' yesterday may need reviewing tomorrow in the light of better information.

All the Internet does is provide a channel...

...it's still down to how you question and conclude.

I do question and conclude when a subject catches my attention, that's why I started the op. After doing so, my vote still only has equivalence
with one derived from the contents of newspapers etc..............the truth as perceived.

Ironically the subject came from "Newsnight", which I usually watch, otherwise I just pay the license fee to control the "off" button.

The drivel my wife "watches" , whilst simultaneously screwing up her laptop, is about as interesting as the football circus.
Typical evening, wife watches TV as above, I switch channel, get "I was watching that". Switch back, sit a while, watch whatever.
Wife mutters something or starts laughing. Is she talking to me, the TV, the laptop, or the dog, no idea, and usually get it wrong !

Eventually just listen for something starting with "Are you deaf..............". Probably why I'm writing this, old married couple syndrome ?

And, yes, I did miss the the Mark Twain quote, thought I was my turn.;)
 
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old married couple syndrome

my partner has an ipod and reckons she can multi task ie play games on her phone/ds listen to a book on her ipod and watch television , she is capable of putting up with loud music at family parties but moans the television is too loud
I know none of this has anything to do with solar panels but all the green power sources are flawed because they are not green to manufacture ( electric cars where does the electric come from power stations that are due to be shut down and no new ones are being built) (hybrid cars the batteries are made from minerals that mining for them destroys vast tracts of Canada and are then shipped round the world and back )
 
hiya i have had so many arguments over solar panels...
would i pay out £10.000+ for them on my roof...........

NO THANKS
 
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