DVB - PC Cards CAM/programmer/card confusion

[elyl]

I'm about to take the plunge and build an HTPC but I'm a bit confused about a few things.

I'll run through things as I understand them first, please correct me if I've got things mixed up:

I need a DVB-C card (I want a PCI one).
I can choose either a SoftCAM or a hardware CAM.
SoftCAM changes channels slower and can only decode 1 channel at a time.
A hardware CAM is better. I believe I can use 2 DVB-Cs with 2 CAMs to be able to watch 1 channel while recording another.
If I get a 1500 DVB-C card then I need to get a CI for it. The CAM attaches to the CI?
If I get a FloppyDTV it already has a CI?
I must choose a CAM. There are a few of these.
I must program a viewing card (funcard?) which I slot into the CAM which slots into the DVB-C?
Once I have a viewing card programmed then it automatically updates the keys itself.

Then there's the software, which I'm not quite as concerned about right now:
I can try scanning for channels, or inputting the frequencies manually (from a DBox services.xml file?)
Windows XP/Vista MCE doesn't support DVB-C cards directly (but I can use VistaTV)?
MediaPortal supports DVB-C better than MCE?


If anyone can put me right on any of my above points, I'll be most grateful. Also, if anyone has recommendations for which CAM to use, which funcard, which programmer etc (these are the things I'm most confused about!) then please let me know.

If I install 2 DVB-C cards, will MediaPortal or MCE be able to give me V+/TiVo type functionality? Also, is there such a thing as a DVB-C PCI card with hardware MPEG-2 decoding?

Thanks in advance!
Elyl

 

[cafe.racer]

Yes

You need to decide what HTPC software to use, MCE doesn't support softcams.

That's my understanding, too

"Better" is subjective. Faster channel changing, etc, but also more expensive than a softcam.

The CAM Fits inside the CI Slot. The CAM's actually a PCMCIA style "card"

The TT1500, I understand has a optional extra daughter card that has the CI slot in it. I understand this physically takes up the extra PCI space, although it's not a PCI card itself. The FloppyDTV and the FireDTV have the CI Slot built in. I've read posts that recommend the Fire/FloppyDTV over the TT1500. I have a FireDTV mainly because I have a small case with only two PCI slots, and I want to keep them free for other stuff, like (maybe) a better graphics card to support HD etc.

Err, yes, you must choose a CAM.

A funcard or other card (the credit card thingy) fits in the CAM, yes. BUT, you don't necessarily need a card, my Diablo CAM has a card emulation mode. I'm not sure if other CAMs support this.

Auto-Update, I can't answer you on. The keys in my CAM don't auto-update, but then they haven't changed in..... weeks. I don't understnad this myself, but the impression I got was that they don't roll the keys as often as other methods of provision. I came to the conclusiont that I would work out how to do AU funcards if I needed to.

My findings are that all the HTPC applications (not specifically sure about mediaportal) need frequencies - they don't scan every frequency, you give them a list of transponder frequencies to look at and they pick up channels from there. There might be 5-15 channels on one transponder.

MCE doesn't support DVB-C cards directly, but the Floppy/FireDTV pretend to be a DVB-T a card, then the driver has a registry section that lists the DVB-T transponder frequencies and the corresponding DVB-C Transponder frequencies. This is where I'm currently stuck(ish), I can't find a services.xml for my area, but it seems that by finding the default frequency for your area (there's a document on the forum somewhere) you can create a transponder list in 8mhz steps and scan that. It seems to be working for me now, although it can be inconsistent - scanning several times on different days, even, seems to work; I was too impatient, scanning once, getting two channels and assuming I'd got the wrong transponders...

Again, dunno know anything about mediaportal, but there's a couple of guys use it, so they might be able to help. Maybe we should compile a comparison of one against the other.

 

[cafe.racer]

[battery went flat]

You thread title mentions programmers, but your post doesn't - some CAMs you can program in a laptop PCMCIA slot (apparently) you'll have to search for drivers, most likely. I couldn't get the Diablo to work and I googled one result that said it wasn't possible. I didn't want to muck about, so I bought a CAS3+.

It's a shame the FireDTV doesn't allow you to flash CAMs. Some of the CAM settings you can change with their CI Tool (Emulation, for example), but there are some I can't change, like the nagra codes. It'd be a really nice solution if you could...

The other component you'll need to worry about is the Guide in MCE. Because MCE is tricked into thinking the DVB-C card is a DVB-T card, it wants to go and downlod the DVB-T. You'll get some of your channels with guide info, but not all - obviosuly not the channels that aren't on DVB-T. There is a registry hack that you use to set the headend value back to the headend for cable, then it'll download the right guide. Still need to manually match up some of the channels, though.

Someone recommended to me to get it all working in DVBViewer, MyTheatre or something similar, then get it working in MCE. Wished I'd ave listened to them...

P.S. There is a Floppy/FireDTV specific version on MyTheatre on digital-everywhere, which is what I'm using. Not a patch on MCE's "10 foot" experience, though.

 

[charlieram]

A softcam can decode more than one channel on a transponder at a time it all depends on the softare, DVBDream for instance has 20 PIP plugin folders that enable you to vie upto 20 encrypted channels on a transponder at the same time (if your pc can handle it) or you can record all the streams so it just depends on if the softare supports it.

 

[elyl]

OK, so I need a CAM, and some CAMs need a card to plug into it, and some don't. Just to confuse me further, eh? Do you think your AU problem is down to your CAM? Does anyone else use a different CAM/card combo which AUs properly?

I've pretty much ruled out the SoftCAM option as I'd like the option to record something on one transponder while watching something on another.

Ah, so I can use MCE with a DVB-C - I just pretend it's a DVB-T card. I already have a Eurovox, so I can get all the frequencies of the channels from that, no problems. I've read a few posts about editing the registry to get the EPG running properly and it looks quite tricky - is it possible to have a working EPG for every channel on cable with a bit of perserverence? Is this what VistaTV is designed to do, and has anyone else used it?


Here's the hardware I'm planning for my (ideally, low-powered and quiet) HTPC:

Antec Fusion v2 case
Gigabyte GA-G33M-S2H micro-ATX mobo
Core 2 Duo
2Gb DDR2 memory
Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB hard drive
2x C1500 or 2x FloppyDTV
GeForce 8 series passive cooled gfx card

I'd like to be able to decode 2 cable streams simultaneously, hopefully with HD when more channels become available on VM - what speed/model of Core 2 Duo will handle this, and do you think a gfx card is overkill for media only (I don't plan on playing games on this system)? I know the newer NVidias and ATIs support hardware decoding of HD content, but I believe that VM encodes its content in MPEG2 - would I need hardware acceleration to decode 2 streams of this (since it's not as complex as H264)?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[charlieram]

I'd like to be able to decode 2 cable streams simultaneously, hopefully with HD when more channels become available on VM - what speed/model of Core 2 Duo will handle this, and do you think a gfx card is overkill for media only (I don't plan on playing games on this system)? I know the newer NVidias and ATIs support hardware decoding of HD content, but I believe that VM encodes its content in MPEG2 - would I need hardware acceleration to decode 2 streams of this (since it's not as complex as H264)?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

you dont't need to decode the stream to save it to disk, only when you view it so a coreduo should be more than enough.

 

[cafe.racer]

@charlie - I think you mean Saves to disk without decoding, as opposed to saving to disk without decrypting? I think that's what you mean, I read elyl 's post to mean that he wants to decrypt two channels at once (he wouldn't watch [i.e. decode] two channels at once?). I think, with a softcam, that would take more processor power than with two CAMs. I've confused myself, there

In terms of my AU problem - I was trying to say that I don't think mine AU's, but I don't think it needs to as they don't change the keys, so I don't have an AU problem.

It's the FireDTV drivers that install it as a DVB-T card, so it's not like you have to fiddle. Not sure what a EuroVox is, if it's a DVB-T card, it won't pick up the cable frequencies...

A HTPC, if it's going to be in front of the telly, needs to be as quiet as possible so you're heading the right way - not sure what the WD is like, but I have a Samsung Spinpoint which is quiet enough, but could be quieter. In fact my onboard graphics card can "squeak" a little sometimes

You could run an MCE on a lower spec than that, but it seems sensible to me.

 

[charlieram]

@charlie - I think you mean Saves to disk without decoding, as opposed to saving to disk without decrypting? I think that's what you mean, I read elyl 's post to mean that he wants to decrypt two channels at once (he wouldn't watch [i.e. decode] two channels at once?). I think, with a softcam, that would take more processor power than with two CAMs. I've confused myself, there

Thats what I said wasn't it? :err:

you don't need a powerful pc to decrypt a stream, doesn't matter whether it's SD or HD you only need it to be powerful if you want to watch 2 HD streams at the same time, but sein as we only have BBCHD I can't see you needing it yet.

 

[cafe.racer]

My bad, was misreading.

 

[elyl]

Yeah, to clarify, I was thinking about decrypting and decoding 2 streams simultaneously. I wasn't aware that the (decrypted) stream could just be saved directly to disc, and didn't need to be decoded until I want to watch it. That makes sense, and has managed to let me lower the spec of my proposed system quite a bit (might be able to do without a discrete gfx card as the G33's media chipset is apparently not too bad).

 

[cafe.racer]

I've two media centers, both are basically the same, they use the on board NVidia 6150, and they both seem fine.