Anti-piracy plan to make ISPs liable for illegal downloads

[nozzer]

An ISP can carry out DPI as and when it wants or needs to, they keep the data for an extremely short time. Should the government ever enforce a system by which the ISP's police the Internet, then they will have to use this method.

In the UK, we dont really have a concept of 'Wire tapping' laws like they do in the US. Phorm is potentially illegal in the UK, but not under any one law. This would make it hard (but not impossible) to prosecute over. However, we are not talking about Phorm here, we are talking about ISP's inspecting their own traffic. I think the acts concerning this topic are the Data Protection Act, the Privacy and Electronic Communications Act and the Fraud Act.

Under the Regulation of Investigatory powers act 2000 it is an offence to intercept any communication, without lawful authority, in the course of its transmission on any public telecommunications system at any place in the United Kingdom.

Under this act any internet system available to the public is considered as a public telecommunications system (they define telecomunications as the transmission of communications by any means involving the use of electrical or electro-magnetic energy deliberately to include computer generated traffic).

This basically means that ISP's are only allowed to inspect headers etc that are necessary for the functioning of the network. They may not look into data packets themselves for any reason without lawful authority.

Phorm and the like is an argument for another day.

 

[karym6]

Good digging, I was looking for the UK equivalent and could not find it .

However, dont you think that if these rules do come into existence, that the ISP's will be given the power to inspect the packets completely - and reatain the information?

 

[nozzer]

However, dont you think that if these rules do come into existence, that the ISP's will be given the power to inspect the packets completely - and reatain the information?

Possibly but if you think about it, then its a bit like asking BT to monitor all phone calls to make sure your not conspiring to commit some illegal act.

Regardless, it would require an ammendment to the present laws and those ammendments would probably face stiff opposition.

There's also some EU issues as I think the right to free and uncensored communication is one of the basic human rights things that all member states have signed up to.

 

[karym6]

Lol, going slightly off topic - they are already upset with us for not 'embracing the human rights act completely' at the moment I think.

Personally, I am all for combatting piracy - but I think these restrictions are not the way forward. I see a plan like a flat rate on top of the ISP bill as the soloution.

 

[sez123]

You may not know this - but a lot of those sites are offering illegal content.

Basically, if you dont pay any money for media, then chances are its illegal. Not always illegal, but probably a lot more often than not.

of course i know that but how did they know what she had downloaded, she said she downloaded more than the one file but just tracked the one album why???

 

[karym6]

of course i know that but how did they know what she had downloaded, she said she downloaded more than the one file but just tracked the one album why???

Where does it say they knew precisely what she had downloaded? She was given a generic letter. Anyway, this was your post:

my neighbor just received a letter from virgin to say she has been downloading and that the letter she has received is a warring and any more downloading she will/may recieve a fine, are we now to say that we should not be downloading any music or movies??
And what about all the sites posting movies and music....

In it you ask explicitly about downloading files. If you know that a lot of these places where you can download content are illegal in the first place, then what is the point you are trying to make?

Yes, we can download content from the Internet legally, iTunes is a very good example of this. It exists in a almost permanent state and does not use any P2P techniques in order to provide content. In fact, I would strongly suggest it even advertises what it is over the Internet.

Your neighbour downloaded some content from the Internet, if we assume it was over bit torrent, she then probably seeded it. Theres your crime right there, not only did she illegally download it she then went on to help others illegally download it.

So, one soloution to this is - if you dont want to get caught then dont do it. ISP's are not stupid, they are normally just swamped with work.

 

[sez123]

Where does it say they knew precisely what she had downloaded? She was given a generic letter. Anyway, this was your post:



In it you ask explicitly about downloading files. If you know that a lot of these places where you can download content are illegal in the first place, then what is the point you are trying to make?

Yes, we can download content from the Internet legally, iTunes is a very good example of this. It exists in a almost permanent state and does not use any P2P techniques in order to provide content. In fact, I would strongly suggest it even advertises what it is over the Internet.

Your neighbour downloaded some content from the Internet, if we assume it was over bit torrent, she then probably seeded it. Theres your crime right there, not only did she illegally download it she then went on to help others illegally download it.

So, one soloution to this is - if you dont want to get caught then dont do it. ISP's are not stupid, they are normally just swamped with work.

kkay - Heres the point i'm getting to, they did know what she had downloaded it was a leona lewis album and i was so shocked because i've been downloading albums for years and much more than her and was not aware that they could determine what it was you were downloading and as silly as it seems....... i thought you could download it and watch it or listen to it as long as you were not coping them and selling them.
I am trying to make sence of the idea that your internet provider do know what you are doing and why she got a letter and not me?
Does that make my post a little clearer as to why i am interested?

 

[karym6]

kkay - Heres the point i'm getting to, they did know what she had downloaded it was a leona lewis album and i was so shocked because i've been downloading albums for years and much more than her and was not aware that they could determine what it was you were downloading and as silly as it seems....... i thought you could download it and watch it or listen to it as long as you were not coping them and selling them.
I am trying to make sence of the idea that your internet provider do know what you are doing and why she got a letter and not me?
Does that make my post a little clearer as to why i am interested?

yeah, it makes more sense now.

You are breaking the law if you are downloading content like this for free. If you see it in a shop for sale and you just grab it off a torrent site thats illegal.

If you use the excuse of "I thought I could try before I buy", no one will care. The concept doesnt exist in the way you portray it. For instance, on Amazon and iTunes, you can listen to a short clip of music to help you help decide to buy it or not. Its the same for some TV Programs and books etc.

If the ISP's cared enough, it wouldnt be hard for them to determine what it is exactly that you are downloading. They will also check how much data you are downloading a month. For instance, if they can tell you dont stream radio or use an IPTV service (which is very easy) and you are burning 100Gb + a month, it wont take even the slowest ISP tech to see what you are doing...

Basically, your grasp of the law in this instance is completely incorrect.

 

[sez123]

Makes more sence than before but seems strange that they picked up on such a small file though???
My son uses jango and that's says its a free site and he listens to all kinds of full free music but does not download them is that legal?.
What about isohunt?
I think if you dont know then you should ask ive been with this site since 2005 and have recieved all great advice.

 

[nozzer]

kkay - Heres the point i'm getting to, they did know what she had downloaded it was a leona lewis album and i was so shocked because i've been downloading albums for years and much more than her and was not aware that they could determine what it was you were downloading and as silly as it seems....... i thought you could download it and watch it or listen to it as long as you were not coping them and selling them.
I am trying to make sence of the idea that your internet provider do know what you are doing and why she got a letter and not me?
Does that make my post a little clearer as to why i am interested?

The internet providers dont normally know or care what you download. The compalint will of come from one of the music industries watchdogs that specifically watch certain sites and then look at what you are seeding (you advertise stuff you are downloading when you are on a per-to-peer network)

Once the ISP get the complaint, which specifies the IP of the downloader, they match it to customer details and send out a bog standard letter.

Basically, the only reason you get caught is because your IP ends up advertising illegal material for others to leech. Thats how P2P systems work !

 

[Erazor786]

I've got a quick question, i f someone could answer for me.

What exactly does Peer Guardian do? And am i right in saying even if u use it,this not mean that you cannot get caught downloading illegal content via P2P?

 

[sez123]

The internet providers dont normally know or care what you download. The compalint will of come from one of the music industries watchdogs that specifically watch certain sites and then look at what you are seeding (you advertise stuff you are downloading when you are on a per-to-peer network)

Once the ISP get the complaint, which specifies the IP of the downloader, they match it to customer details and send out a bog standard letter.

Basically, the only reason you get caught is because your IP ends up advertising illegal material for others to leech. Thats how P2P systems work !

Now that does make sence that's what i thought ....but was'nt sure seems to make sence because my son loves rom files and fell out with me as i had to stop him from downloading them but did notice that they called some funny names

 

[karym6]

The internet providers dont normally know or care what you download. The compalint will of come from one of the music industries watchdogs that specifically watch certain sites and then look at what you are seeding (you advertise stuff you are downloading when you are on a per-to-peer network)

Once the ISP get the complaint, which specifies the IP of the downloader, they match it to customer details and send out a bog standard letter.

Basically, the only reason you get caught is because your IP ends up advertising illegal material for others to leech. Thats how P2P systems work !

Thats not entirely true, the ISP can make very good guesses as to what someone is up to by just looking at their throughput. If it bothers them as to the content, then they may get in touch. If it were a larger ISP, they may do that just as a matter of course.

They will care quite a lot if you are downloading and, more importantly, uploading more on average compared to their other customers.

All that bandwidth takes up space. This is one of the reasons we have traffic shaping.

 

[karym6]

Now that does make sence that's what i thought ....but was'nt sure seems to make sence because my son loves rom files and fell out with me as i had to stop him from downloading them but did notice that they called some funny names

I am sorry, but to say someone loves roms but wants to download them from the Internet is just plain wrong in my view.

And yeah, I know new games can be expensive blah blah blah - but what do you think people did before the Internet made it so easy to get them?

 

[TrustyChainsaw2000]

I reckon if they want to reduce piracy there needs to be real benefits for people to buy the actual product. Right now buying a DVD gets you unskippable anti-piracy messages (the assumption being that you're going to copy a DVD you've paid for) that can sometimes take minutes to play out (Batman Begin's). You can download the film and not get any of that.

Legally purchased, PC Games have DRM that can potentially cripple windows machines - again pirated versions often side step the issue.

You should pay for the superior product/experience and once you've paid you shouldn't be treated as a potential criminal. Publishers have little respect for their customers and as such they don't deserve the money.

Unfortunately, the creative geniuses that do deserve the money get screwed over - but only slightly more than what the publishers are doing to them.

 

[TrustyChainsaw2000]

I've got a quick question, i f someone could answer for me.

What exactly does Peer Guardian do? And am i right in saying even if u use it,this not mean that you cannot get caught downloading illegal content via P2P?

Peerguadian simply prevents your computer from communicating with certain IP Addresses. The theory is that if the all the people who are out to get file sharers are blacklisted then you can't get caught. The downside is the blacklist will always be at least a bit out of date and I guess there's nothing to stop the people monitoring the downloads to simple by several cheap ASDL subscriptions through regular ISP's and setting their honeypots/monitor apps up using them.