M
Mr_Whippy
Guest
!WARNING! I do not recommend or condone law breaking. I am not a QC and the content of this topic is simply ideas not recommendations.
If you try to use this information you do so entirely at your own risk.
I have personaly used the double guilty blag and it has worked,well so far,the police said in a letter 2 months ago they were sending my details to the CPS recammending prosecuting me for not providing the driver details (scare tactics hopeing id confess)and i still havent heard from them.........yet
so has anyone got any idea how long it will take the CPS to decide to screw me?
if they are at all.
btw im gonna go NOT guilty if they wanna prosecute me as in my honest view i did indeed provide the drivers details to the best of my knowlege (just two sets of em on the same NIP) lol
AND REMEMBER DONT SIGN ANYTHING AS YOU DONT HAVE TOO, IT CANT BE USED IN COURT AGAINST YOU IF YOU HAVENT SIGNED IT.
Company gets the points:
If a limited company owns the car and can't or won't say who was driving at the time of the offence, the company secretary (official post) gets the points and fine. A lot of limited companies now have non-driving secretaries! Also there is no requirement for a company secretary to be a UK resident. A limited company can be bought for circa £100 and run for about the same amount each year if it doesn't actually trade.
Does anyone want to set up a business with an overseas company secretary to receive points?
Overseas driver:
If the person who was driving at the time of the offence was a visitor from overseas then this would be a very good thing. Feel free to give the driver's name and address on the form. If the driver is outside the UK but within the EEC there's an outside chance that they might hear about the offence. If the driver was from a third world country, then you can be pretty sure that that will be an end to the matter.
Double denial:
If there were two of you in the car and you reply to the NIP that the other person was driving, they will receive a summons or a fixed penalty notice. If they in turn plead not guilty and say that you were driving, it will be your word against theirs and NEITHER of you can be found guilty since a reasonable doubt of the guilt of EITHER of you must exist.
Double guilty "Police" recommended:
Again if there were two of you in the car and you don't recall who was driving. A police officer recommended to us that you fill in the NIP with BOTH names saying that you can't identify the driver, but you are in effect, both guilty. The system cannot prosecute two people for the same offence and this should result in the case being dropped more quickly and with less hassle than in Double denial. You can expect a visit from the local police to talk you into nominating a driver (yes really!), but stick to your guns and all will be well.
Cloned number plate:
Number plate cloning is becoming much more common. It is quite possible that someone will have seen your car and copied the number plate, so if your car was not in the area where the offence was committed, do not be afraid to write and tell them so. Most cameras only photograph the rear of the vehicle, so obvious identifying features may be evidence that it really was your car.
Underage owner:
Register the vehicle in the name of a two year old child. We think this is perfectly legal, and they will not prosecute the two year old. Your can remain the owner, but be sure to inform the insurance company.
Owner, what owner?:
A lot of traders buy cars with 12 months tax (ex fleet cars are usually out of tax just before the end of the lease so get a new tax disc and are then moved on) run it and then trade it on before the tax runs out. The police can't follow the paper chase (usually with a few false names) so give up. Camera fines and parking tickets are all a thing of the past for these people. I see this being the way a lot of people will go if camera numbers grow. Anyway buying and selling trade is the cheapest way to run a car.
Dead driver:
I heard suggested that on receiving the notice of intended prosecution you could pick a recently deceased person mentioned in the local paper and name them as the driver at the time.
Friend takes the points:
If you have a friend with a clean licence, they might agree to admit that they were driving and allow you to pay their fixed penalty notice and any (small!) motor insurance increases. This works even better if you have a relative who no longer drives. If you have a friend who never intends to drive, make sure they get a provisional licence to receive points for you. At the time of writing there are no insurance or other checks when a fixed penalty notice is paid.
Maximum delay:
Delays to the court process are a good thing and encourage the failure of the case. (for example, if a police witness leaves the force the case will be dropped.) I have recently heard that points "count" from the time of the offence for 3 years. If the court case takes a year, then the points won't be applied for a year and will only be valid for 2 years. If you have a holiday booked for the time of a hearing you can request that the hearing be rescheduled. There may be many many other grounds for delay.
Points selling and brokerage:
According to a recent Sunday Times article there's a lively trade in selling points. Students are said to have taken points for fees of £50. Read the article here. The article also describes a student who acts as a points broker and makes a profit from the process. An Internet search on "licence points broker" finds nothing, so that exact phrase would be very good for anyone setting up or advertising such a scheme. ACPO warns that that selling points might attract a charge of "attempting to pervert the course of justice", but of course evidence to support such a charge should be extremely hard to come by.
Planned refusal:
Suppose you've been gatsoed at 105mph on the motorway. According to Magistrates Association guidelines you face a ban for major speeding. If you refuse to identify the driver it seems that you only face 3 points and a fine. So if the speeding offence is "serious" you might sensibly plan to refuse to identify the driver. We are presently trying to verify the exact legal position on this.
Can't identify driver:
If you genuinely cannot identify the driver (for example because the driving on the journey in question was shared) then say you cannot identify the driver. Failing to identify the driver is, in itself, an offence, but as an individual you cannot be found guilty if you genuinely do not know who the driver was. Companies are apparently not entitled to use this defence. I heard of a case where someone was selling a motorbike. A prospective purchaser turned up, left the full payment as a security deposit and took the bike for a test drive. During the test drive he was photographed by a speed camera. He didn't buy the bike. When the NIP arrived the owner was unable to identify the driver.
Question the calibration:
My m8 was flashed almost a year ago in a welsh town. He was "caught" doing 43 in a 30 zone. After he received notification he queried the accuracy of the camera. He wrote back asking for proof that the camera was recently calibrated. The police wrote back and said that the cameras are checked daily for accuracy (what a load of crap).... My m8 then wrote back asking for the calibration reports, stating that if the cameras are indeed calibrated daily then there would be records of the fact. He askd for these reports so he could send them to his solicitor.
That was the last my m8 has heard about the matter.
Keep to the speed limit in the first place
Obvious of course.
i have since purchased a Road Angel and it seems quite good so with any luck they can F**k Off in future !
!IMPORTANT!:If you do use this information you do so entirely at your own risk.
If you try to use this information you do so entirely at your own risk.
I have personaly used the double guilty blag and it has worked,well so far,the police said in a letter 2 months ago they were sending my details to the CPS recammending prosecuting me for not providing the driver details (scare tactics hopeing id confess)and i still havent heard from them.........yet
so has anyone got any idea how long it will take the CPS to decide to screw me?
if they are at all.
btw im gonna go NOT guilty if they wanna prosecute me as in my honest view i did indeed provide the drivers details to the best of my knowlege (just two sets of em on the same NIP) lol
AND REMEMBER DONT SIGN ANYTHING AS YOU DONT HAVE TOO, IT CANT BE USED IN COURT AGAINST YOU IF YOU HAVENT SIGNED IT.
Company gets the points:
If a limited company owns the car and can't or won't say who was driving at the time of the offence, the company secretary (official post) gets the points and fine. A lot of limited companies now have non-driving secretaries! Also there is no requirement for a company secretary to be a UK resident. A limited company can be bought for circa £100 and run for about the same amount each year if it doesn't actually trade.
Does anyone want to set up a business with an overseas company secretary to receive points?
Overseas driver:
If the person who was driving at the time of the offence was a visitor from overseas then this would be a very good thing. Feel free to give the driver's name and address on the form. If the driver is outside the UK but within the EEC there's an outside chance that they might hear about the offence. If the driver was from a third world country, then you can be pretty sure that that will be an end to the matter.
Double denial:
If there were two of you in the car and you reply to the NIP that the other person was driving, they will receive a summons or a fixed penalty notice. If they in turn plead not guilty and say that you were driving, it will be your word against theirs and NEITHER of you can be found guilty since a reasonable doubt of the guilt of EITHER of you must exist.
Double guilty "Police" recommended:
Again if there were two of you in the car and you don't recall who was driving. A police officer recommended to us that you fill in the NIP with BOTH names saying that you can't identify the driver, but you are in effect, both guilty. The system cannot prosecute two people for the same offence and this should result in the case being dropped more quickly and with less hassle than in Double denial. You can expect a visit from the local police to talk you into nominating a driver (yes really!), but stick to your guns and all will be well.
Cloned number plate:
Number plate cloning is becoming much more common. It is quite possible that someone will have seen your car and copied the number plate, so if your car was not in the area where the offence was committed, do not be afraid to write and tell them so. Most cameras only photograph the rear of the vehicle, so obvious identifying features may be evidence that it really was your car.
Underage owner:
Register the vehicle in the name of a two year old child. We think this is perfectly legal, and they will not prosecute the two year old. Your can remain the owner, but be sure to inform the insurance company.
Owner, what owner?:
A lot of traders buy cars with 12 months tax (ex fleet cars are usually out of tax just before the end of the lease so get a new tax disc and are then moved on) run it and then trade it on before the tax runs out. The police can't follow the paper chase (usually with a few false names) so give up. Camera fines and parking tickets are all a thing of the past for these people. I see this being the way a lot of people will go if camera numbers grow. Anyway buying and selling trade is the cheapest way to run a car.
Dead driver:
I heard suggested that on receiving the notice of intended prosecution you could pick a recently deceased person mentioned in the local paper and name them as the driver at the time.
Friend takes the points:
If you have a friend with a clean licence, they might agree to admit that they were driving and allow you to pay their fixed penalty notice and any (small!) motor insurance increases. This works even better if you have a relative who no longer drives. If you have a friend who never intends to drive, make sure they get a provisional licence to receive points for you. At the time of writing there are no insurance or other checks when a fixed penalty notice is paid.
Maximum delay:
Delays to the court process are a good thing and encourage the failure of the case. (for example, if a police witness leaves the force the case will be dropped.) I have recently heard that points "count" from the time of the offence for 3 years. If the court case takes a year, then the points won't be applied for a year and will only be valid for 2 years. If you have a holiday booked for the time of a hearing you can request that the hearing be rescheduled. There may be many many other grounds for delay.
Points selling and brokerage:
According to a recent Sunday Times article there's a lively trade in selling points. Students are said to have taken points for fees of £50. Read the article here. The article also describes a student who acts as a points broker and makes a profit from the process. An Internet search on "licence points broker" finds nothing, so that exact phrase would be very good for anyone setting up or advertising such a scheme. ACPO warns that that selling points might attract a charge of "attempting to pervert the course of justice", but of course evidence to support such a charge should be extremely hard to come by.
Planned refusal:
Suppose you've been gatsoed at 105mph on the motorway. According to Magistrates Association guidelines you face a ban for major speeding. If you refuse to identify the driver it seems that you only face 3 points and a fine. So if the speeding offence is "serious" you might sensibly plan to refuse to identify the driver. We are presently trying to verify the exact legal position on this.
Can't identify driver:
If you genuinely cannot identify the driver (for example because the driving on the journey in question was shared) then say you cannot identify the driver. Failing to identify the driver is, in itself, an offence, but as an individual you cannot be found guilty if you genuinely do not know who the driver was. Companies are apparently not entitled to use this defence. I heard of a case where someone was selling a motorbike. A prospective purchaser turned up, left the full payment as a security deposit and took the bike for a test drive. During the test drive he was photographed by a speed camera. He didn't buy the bike. When the NIP arrived the owner was unable to identify the driver.
Question the calibration:
My m8 was flashed almost a year ago in a welsh town. He was "caught" doing 43 in a 30 zone. After he received notification he queried the accuracy of the camera. He wrote back asking for proof that the camera was recently calibrated. The police wrote back and said that the cameras are checked daily for accuracy (what a load of crap).... My m8 then wrote back asking for the calibration reports, stating that if the cameras are indeed calibrated daily then there would be records of the fact. He askd for these reports so he could send them to his solicitor.
That was the last my m8 has heard about the matter.
Keep to the speed limit in the first place
Obvious of course.
i have since purchased a Road Angel and it seems quite good so with any luck they can F**k Off in future !
!IMPORTANT!:If you do use this information you do so entirely at your own risk.