• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

Whats the point of law?

pinkhelmets

VIP Member
VIP Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
5,187
Likes
89
#1
Do you realise that at least 2.4 million quid a year is stolen from dead peoples Estates, and there is currently no way to deal with this via law in the uk. The reported figure of 2.4 million could actually be WELL under-estimated as much more could go un-noticed or un-reported. I am amazed at recent findings and cant believe people dont realise this type of theft is so common.

An example in brief-
If a widowed mother of a couple of children decides to have her eldest son be the executor of her will (this is extremely common) then he will have sole control of her estate after the mothers death. The will maybe states all 3 should have an equal share (again the normal). If he (the son, the executor) is knowledgable or maybe decides to be dishonest he is easily able to sell a house and decide for himself how much each gets, basically re-writing the will to his terms. You would presume this is illegal yes? Well by law it is, BUT in reality there isnt any enforcement of this law in the uk. So in other words if you were one of the other children in the will you would have to persue this issue by personal court action, taking your brother to court. The cost of this may be estimated at around 30~35 thousand, but easily could be more. Trying to prove how much money there should be, or perhaps where cash money has been spent etc means that you are highly unlikely to win in full any way. So unless you have a seriously substantial amount of money behind you and/or you have seriously substantial money to gain then the action would likely never be recommended by a solicitor!!

How f&(£ed up is that? Its a sick thought that any of your own children would decide to do this, but its amazing that this is something that is known to go on alot in the uk yet people shrug their shoulders "ohhh well".

----------------------------------------------Thats my simple rant--------

Now a story of this in real life, if you want to read on :). My mum is the eldest of 3 children and her mother died last year. My uncle was executor of the will for understandable reasons- He is a VERY high ranking HM Tax Inspector .....boooo hisssss spit. He is very knowledgable about finance and money laws etc so his mother obviously had trust in him to be executor, no problem. His high powered job means that he has to swear an oath of honesty and is fully trusted to be in his position. When my grandad was alive he had a 10-bedroom hotel in bournemouth, a home in london, a large skip business in london and lots of hidden cash too ....he was a rich bastard lol. Anyway, as a widow my nan was well-off for the rest of her days. However, we have since found out my 'trusted' uncle ripped off the governement by 'hiding' my nans money in order to get her help at tax-payers expense for her last few years of life (Tax Inspector scum). Cut a long story short, my mum & her sister were told they were entitled to 20k each. They couldnt laugh even though its the most ridiculously funny figure they could have imagined. Now many months of trying to use 'law' that does exist means that they do now have much proof that he has stolen large amounts. They also have proof it was himself that de-frauded the government, and proof that he is working in a highly paid - highly ranking job whilst breaking the required honesty oath. He knows he possibly has a lot to lose, but he has already had the large gain. Bottom line is there is now a stalemate. If the girls choose to spend 30k ~ 35k of their own money they could take the case to court, against the advice of all solicitors. They MAY gain approx 50k extra split between them after taking out the large amounts that the government would claim back, but its a risk. Each direction they have gone has seen the law is against their case. There are many more twists and turns too, but the point is that this private educated high ranking tax man knows his stuff and has f=(ked the family as well as every tax payer, and is as crooked as every member of parliament. Its a disgrace.
 

bert1

Inactive User
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Messages
818
Likes
4
#2
Hi m8...I agree- there are 2 sets of laws here 1 for the normal and another for the well to do with contacts.....

Any normal person would avoid at all cost,being the executor of someone elses will.The amount of running around ,paperwork and other practicalities is amazing.My Dad (30 Years ago) agreed to be executor of one of his closest friends'will-he had no immediate family living here but did have some living away.The friendship my dad had with him (and his other close friends for that) was more like a brotherly relationship . Sadly he passed away before Christmas. For the best part of 6 weeks-My dad was working with solicitors,utilities,funeral directors and the family members-lucky he was retired.

It was an amazing amount of effort and responsibility that he never bargained for. On his first meeting with the solicitor-she nearly fell off her chair when he told her that he was the executor......."Why on earth would you want to do that ?" she asked. It would appear that a simple gentlemen's agreement made 30 years ago between the closest of friends could land you more than you bargained for as areas of law and morals change over time.

It would appear that in certain circumstances the executor can become liable /legally responsible for things you'd never dream of. Eg Say something happened to the deceased's property and the insurance had lapsed- technically the executor is responsible in law.This frightened the life out of me old man.......and he made immediate steps to transfer the responsibility to the solicitor.

Executor duties should be passed to the solicitor -ASAP....best for all honest parties concerned.

Judging from this Pinks,your relative obviously had a lot to gain as no normal person-being aware of those facts- would want the risk or hassle.

With legal aid not applying -have you looked into financing the case via an insurance policy= but wont ur uncle pay their costs if u win ? and an opportunity maybe to appoint a solicitor who specialises rather than generalises. ......I have no idea as to the logistics of this and stumbled across it whilst looking for other stuff on the net-dont even know what circumstances its relevant to.

On reading again m8 -Id overlooked the fact that not all is well even if u were to win.-hence me mentioning a specialist.

Hope it pans out for u m8
 
Last edited:

pinkhelmets

VIP Member
VIP Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
5,187
Likes
89
#3
thanks bert. The reason for the rant isnt so much to get any legal advice etc, or even vigilante advice before anyone says something hehe. But the point is that executors dont even have to be family, its anyone appointed who you trust with your will. They can steal money, take and share out what they want how they want, they can even sell a home and collect the money themselves and draw it out cash and go and spend it! No Joke. The only way you can do anything is personal court action which is very expensive and due to the mountain of possible defences you are very highly unlikely to gain. The law is 'inocent until proven guilty' so you have to then try and prove stuff thats impossible to prove, especially when the executor holds all the cards like accounts etc. Its very complex and thats the reason for such high costs in any similar case. Basically uk laws are crap, basically 2 sets of laws like you say above. I dont live by laws anyway i've learnt to break as many as i can without affecting anyone, and this isnt my money so i dont have a personal loss, but if there is anything to learn here its that you should not trust anyone whatsoever to be an executor of your will. If you are an executor already you should just keep all the money yourself and ignore the rest.
Regards.
 

bert1

Inactive User
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Messages
818
Likes
4
#4
has he blown this money m8...or has he got some assets that could not be explained by a tax inspector's salary??....as for the tax bill seems little u can do
but it does seem odd he's got it tied up completely m8.Wheres the police in this-after all it is theft.

He should also be a member of a professiional association.-Have they thought about making a complaint-or threatening to make a complaint against him....that may get them somewhere without involving the suits.
 

pinkhelmets

VIP Member
VIP Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
5,187
Likes
89
#5
he has spent lots (or made it disappear) but there is much left thats currently frozen. The amount that is frozen he has agreed to split 3 ways, however this is another reason the law sucks, he will not agree to allow a 3rd party solicitor to handle the funds- he doesnt have to. So he may agree whatever you want, but once the 'frozen' bit is lifted (cant remember the words lol) he can then go and draw money for himself and never pay whatever is agreed ....unless you personally take it to court again. Stupid rules.
As for the police they have no power whatsoever in this. It is obviously regarded by anyone 'normal' that this is theft or fraud too, but not in the eye of the law. Its a civil matter that they have no interest in, unless you first prove in a court of law that money has been stolen etc, then they can make an arrest & make a seperate court case (if cps say so).
The professional situation is a way forward, as there is evidence of fraud but threats are met with total zero reply. Thing is that path is just about revenge and not about whats right and doesnt solve the financial stuff. Revenge is the easy bit :).
As for assets and what his salary covers etc, well he has been extremely well paid for 30+ years and his wife was/is a millionaire so i'm sure he has every angle covered there.
Although this may sound like an unusual situation it isnt, its just this particular case is maybe larger or more complex than normal but this is still going on with many more smaller/simple cases. If an executor wants to take money there is zero you can do unless you have deep pockets.
 

bert1

Inactive User
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Messages
818
Likes
4
#6
I dont know what it is about those who have....they always want more...
I can never understand why.....me-just enough to put a smile on my face each day....I can leave all the heirs and graces thing.......

What is really gut wrenching in this -he has done it to his own flesh & blood...