Upgrading to Nest Thermostat

Bally12345

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So I have just bought a Nest 3rd Gen thermostat and just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

I have a Bosch Worcester Greenstar 35CDi boiler in the loft with a unvented water cylinder.

From the loft cables run down to a Honeywell ST9400S programmer under my stairs which is currently connected to a Salus RF thermostat.

From what I understand there's no control wire as I have never had a wired stat.

Does the nest hub go in place of the honeywell programmer or does it stay in the loft next to the the boiler?

The boiler has a 10way honeywell junction box next to it.

What I would like to do is put a hole through just above the door underneath the stairs so the nest thermostat stat will be mounted but then just plug it into a socket if it can't be powered using existing wiring.

In terms of hot water don't think I have opentherm. As long as the nest can turn it on and off that's fine. There's a temperature control and side of the water tank.

Am I missing anything? Just a normal micro USB to power up.
 
Checked the wiring diagram for the honeywell programmer.

LIVE & NEUTRAL
1 = water on
2 = heating on
3 = water off
4 = heating off

So if it matches up should be pretty straight forward. Will have to open it up and have a look on the weekend.

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Check to see if there is any voltage across the contacts. If there is, shorting them will create the demand.
I suspect the Nest will work on volt free contacts, so all should be good. [emoji106]
 
When installing the Nest do you have to change any wires from the boiler or just rewire the thermostat end ?
 
When installing the Nest do you have to change any wires from the boiler or just rewire the thermostat end ?
I'm hoping it's just from the programmer side which is under my stairs. Not got round to doing anything yet [emoji30]

Screwfix have a deal for the Nest 3rd Thermostat with the stand for £169.99

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Well I've been watching some you tube videos and some just change the thermostat and some change wires from boiler end so I'm a bit unsure myself
 
Can anyone shed some light on this, took off the cover on the honeywell programmer and it looks like only HW and CH "ON" are connected.

Then is that a LIVE switch where the red crimp is?

Not sure the OFF wires are needed for the heat link needs to be connected and working correctly.
18b6fc6bcfd88904b94aba07ce2b8b1a.jpg


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Ended up doing the sensible thing and getting a installer as I have a unvented hot water tank and just wasn't sure on the wiring.

This is what the heat link wiring looks like now.
c226f9cd9e1dcb2ce91c2dc92d6da8a5.jpg


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That was a good call, I know you spent a few quid, but without seeing the whole installation you might have been given incorrect advice.

Nest is a great thermostat when compared to the original, it learns and knows when your out saving you monies.

Mick
 
Slightly off topic but i learned something the other day from the guy out repairing my boiler. He said to keep the radiator Heat setting at the boiler as low as you can as if its on too high the water returning from the radiators will be too hot for the condensing reaction ie extracting heat from the exhaust gasses.
 
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Slightly off topic but i learned something the other day from the guy out repairing my boiler. He said to keep the radiator Heat setting as low as you can as if its on too high the water returning from the radiators will be too hot for the condensing reaction ie extracting heat from the exhaust gasses.
I normally have all my upstairs radiators on 3 and downstairs on 5. On the actual boiler itself I have to the eco number to go past it you have to twist until it clicks.

Hopefully everything is nicely optimised and the Nest will start learning. Luckily I opted for Nest smoke alarm 2 years ago and they act as presence sensors too.

I am happy with the end result. The installer said its a lot more straight forward with Combi boilers.

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That does not make sense, as if the radiators are low, the heat is not being radiated off.
So effectively you are reducing the circuit size and making the heating loop smaller resulting in less themal drop across the inlet and outlet.

The idea of a condensing boiler is that it uses the exhaust gases to preheat the return before it goes across the main gas heat exchanger.

The condensing only really happens when the system is cold.

I think your boiler engineer was talking out of his arse and did not understand the physics behind it.
 
That does not make sense, as if the radiators are low, the heat is not being radiated off.
So effectively you are reducing the circuit size and making the heating loop smaller resulting in less themal drop across the inlet and outlet.

The idea of a condensing boiler is that it uses the exhaust gases to preheat the return before it goes across the main gas heat exchanger.

The condensing only really happens when the system is cold.

I think your boiler engineer was talking out of his arse and did not understand the physics behind it.


Think he knows what hes on about mate going by the extract from Wiki

Efficiency[edit]
Condensing boiler manufacturers claim that up to 98% thermal efficiency can be achieved,[4] compared to 70%-80% with conventional designs (based on the higher heating value of fuels). Typical models offer efficiencies around 90%, which brings most brands of condensing gas boiler in to the highest available categories for energy efficiency. In the UK, this is a SEDBUK (Seasonal Efficiency of Domestic Boilers in the UK)[5] Band A efficiency rating, while in North America they typically receive an Eco Logo and/or Energy Star Certification.
Boiler performance is based on the efficiency of heat transfer and highly dependent on boiler size/output and emitter size/output. System design and installation are critical. Matching the radiation to the Btu/Hr output of the boiler and consideration of the emitter/radiator design temperatures determines the overall efficiency of the space and domestic water heating system.
One reason for an efficiency drop is because the design and/or implementation of the heating system gives return water (heat transfer fluid) temperatures at the boiler of over 55°C (131°F), which prevents significant condensation in the heat exchanger.[6] Better education of both installers and owners could be expected to raise efficiency towards the reported laboratory values. Natural Resources Canada[7] also suggests ways to make better use of these boilers, such as combining space and water heating systems. Some boilers (e.g. Potterton) can be switched between two flow temperatures such as 63°C (145°F) and 84°C (183°F), only the former being "fully condensing." However, boilers are normally installed with higher flow temperature by default because a domestic hot water cylinder is generally heated to 60°C (140°F), and this takes too long to achieve with a flow temperature only three degrees higher. Nevertheless, even partial condensing is more efficient than a traditional boiler.
Most non-condensing boilers could be forced to condense through simple control changes. Doing so would reduce fuel consumption considerably, but would quickly destroy any mild steel or cast-iron components of a conventional high-temperature boiler due to the corrosive nature of the condensate. For this reason, most condensing boiler heat-exchangers are made from stainless steel or aluminum/silicon alloy. External stainless steel economizers can be retrofitted to non-condensing boilers to allow them to achieve condensing efficiencies. Temperature control valves are used to blend hot supply water into the return to avoid thermal shock or condensation inside of the boiler.
The lower the return temperature to the boiler the more likely it will be in condensing mode. If the return temperature is kept below approximately 55°C (131°F), the boiler should still be in condensing mode making low temperature applications such as radiant floors and even old cast iron radiators a good match for the technology.
Most manufacturers of new domestic condensing boilers produce a basic "fit all" control system that results in the boiler running in condensing mode only on initial heat-up, after which the efficiency drops off. This approach should still exceed that of older models (see the following three documents published by the Building Research Establishment: Information Papers 10-88 and 19-94; General Information Leaflet 74; Digest 339. See also Application Manual AM3 1989: Condensing Boilers by Chartered Institute of Building Services Engineers).






When i said radiator temp i meant the temp set at the boiler not the radiators.
 
From the above "The lower the return temperature to the boiler the more likely it will be in condensing mode."

That's what I said.

But, it was your description that was wrong ;)
If you had said flow temp, that would make sense.
As I said too high a temperature results in less thermal pick up from the exhaust and thus less condensing.
 
What would be the best temperature to set the boiler at on the heating side...
I have read that the water returning from rads can drop as much as 12c
 
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What would be the best temperature to set the boiler at on the heating side...
I have read that the water returning from rads can drop as much as 12c
Going by the info in wiki your looking for the return to be less than 55 c for condensing to work efficiently. What ive found is a more pleasant heat by turning down the flow temp ie when i had it turned up full the honeywell valves were opening and closing more often so it would cycle really hot radiators to cold radiators. By throttling back the flow temp im finding the rads are cooler but dont cycle on and off as much giving a more stable heat.
 
Going by the info in wiki your looking for the return to be less than 55 c for condensing to work efficiently. What ive found is a more pleasant heat by turning down the flow temp ie when i had it turned up full the honeywell valves were opening and closing more often so it would cycle really hot radiators to cold radiators. By throttling back the flow temp im finding the rads are cooler but dont cycle on and off as much giving a more stable heat.
Probably a bit of trial and error i think.
 
@IANB I will have a play. My flow temp has been cranked up max lol. I have bought a cheap pipe thermometer to put on the return pipe near the boiler to get an idea of the return temp. Thanks for the info every little saving counts...
 
When I get mine services, they check the flow and return as part of the efficiency checks.

I have a large system. Big double panel in the lounge and 2 double panels in the conservatory.
With that I get a reasonable temperature differential.

A pipe thermometer is a good idea, maybe get 2 and you can also balance your rads.
 
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