Roofing question

[silverdale]

Is there any experienced roofers in the house who I can pose a question to regarding damp ?

 

[willin]

Morning @silverdale I do general building, also have a good knowledge of roofing mate, ask away.

 

[silverdale]

My m8 past away few year ago and his widow has a big 1970's end terrace ex council built and theirs bad damp in the top corner gable end corners both front and back. there's also quite alot black in and around the upstairs windows all downstairs are fine. The picture is a small cubby hole for storage and this is what she showed me the other day. I'm calling today with my ladder see if there's anything untoward.

I can't get access to the loft till tomorrow but I'm going to check the gutters today. She said her roof was taken off back on about 12 years ago and breathable roof felt put in due to a big condensation problem in the loft. She said it would drip off the felt. She said the loft is a low pitch you cant stand in it but you can crouch and walk so me looking from the outside Id say 4-5ft head space and she said there's loft insulation but .....quite a bit, meaning thick
Is there anything I should look for today on the outside ?. Also above the windows upstairs were the soffit goes in to the window if that makes sense.

Here's the worse the other rooms are ok bar the opposite side of the gable which a painter treated. It looks like a horror movie growth on a wall taking over. How long would that take to build up ? she hardly goes in just crap in it

 

[silverdale]

oh and there's dry verge capping which look worse for wear meaning very faded brown

 

[willin]

Phew, it could be allsorts, are the RWP (rain water pipes) where you’re describing the damp (corner gables) blocked and overrunning towards the soffit/house? Check out the outlets to the down pipes are free tennisballs in there are common, the underfelt should come out from the eaves into the guttering, 12 yo could be old bitumen type felt and perished at the eaves, so any leak COULD run into cavity/house etc.

All roofspace should have ventilation, often at the soffits. It depends how bad the water into the house and from where is as to time to get to that state,

First job ALL guttering downpipes and gullys running and clear, check out the felt and roof ventilation, ALSO see if shes covered on her house insurance, let me know mate.

The verge will be off the sun, take some pics as they help massively.

 

[silverdale]

Will do and thanks for that, she did say the old bitumen felt was replaced 12 years ago with this blue breathable stuff with new batons and the same tiles back on. They had it done because of a huge condensation problem with the old roof felt and in the summer the loft insulation was saturated with condensation. My m8 wasn't a builder but he was ok DIYer. Roofs plumbing electrics he got people in but simple stuff he would do. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have blocked any vents up there and made sure it had air pumping through..
but again I'll know more later, will update you thanks

 

[willin]

It sounds to me like there may not be adequate ventilation at the soffits (or the like) so the loft space can't breathe correctly. where your describing would be where condensation would build up over a number of years, also could be pure coincidence.
You don't need a lot of ventilation for a roof space.
A look in the loft would be essential. Good luck mate.

 

[silverdale]

Gutters were fine but Id say half the tiles on the front were hanging right to the front of the gutter so I stepped them all back as in the picture. The other thing was part of the soffit has dropped and it flex's up down when it's pushed up.
It's as though its warped .i.e. water running off the fascia back onto the dropped edge of the soffit. I'm going in the loft this week find out whats going on so keep your eye open for updates .
The nieghbours gutter meets her's but its a wider gutter and the fall is below the level of were my m8's widow downspout is. Hard to explain but
2 houses joint, both houses gutter fall roughly to the middle , down spout on my m8 house but her gutter is wider and below.

 

[willin]

The first tile shouldn't do that on a 12 yo roof mate, at all. did they push back easily and could you feel the stops drop onto the batten as they went back? I cant see the felt going into the guttering, maybe just which I think is next doors, I can see your at an acute angle, is it into the guttering on your mates widows? Tiles look like marley modern but not certain.
Is she aware of any water dropping near the outlet when it rains? looks like a square gutter into a round outlet and below the running outlet, absolute cowboys done that, you can get adapters from square to round (next doors gutter i'm on about here).

The soffits on those houses are sometimes really thin board so can move you'll have to see from the loft if possible, I'm not happy the first course of tiles had moved though.

 

[silverdale]

The tiles shoved back with a bit of force and a wiggle left right but I didn't feel any resistance more like friction keeping them there infact I pushed one back a bit too far and luckily I had rubber grip gloves and managed to wriggle it back into place.
I was hoping for it to drop onto a baton and hook over the back of it but it never.

My pictures are abit bit sh#t but the flat blue breathable sits on top of the plastic drip tray that hangs into the gutter which to me seems wrong , shouldn't it be the other way round ?.

Next door has had there sofits facias done. Next doors new gutter is round but it's wider and joins at the downspout (near the middle of both pretties.

I would have thought they would have worked from the gutter and drain downspout then backwards but been bigger I bet it would have gone above next doors tiles at the far end.
Both my friends and Next doors gutters are half moon non are square, again its the pictures, sorry but next doors is below so there's a gathering. I'll ask about the gutter dripping at the joint.

The wood on the sofits and facias is sturdy stuff. These were council built in the 70's and are solid I'd say the boards min 8-10mm thick.

I can't do the work, I'm ok painting up at that height but I'm no good getting up there so I was only trying to get a general idea and see if I can see any water ingres.
I do know the ridge badly needs pointing quite a bit of motar is missing.

I went along poking and prodding the timber and although its flakey and there's a sag see picture I think like mine it needs a good sanding and painting. There was vents all along and I'm not sure if there clear but I can unscrew them if needed and check.

I'm going into the loft in the next few days just waiting on my head light usb job landing at screwfix .

On the subject of insulation ? Pretty sure its got poly balls injected into the cavity. And the loft ? Can she still get it done free ?
Again thanks

 

[willin]

It probably needs a roofer to find out exactly where the damp is coming from. It’s concerning that the first course (eaves) tiles seem to have moved. That’s correct the undertile felt sits on top of the eaves tray (water running down).

I would recommend getting the ridge tiles re bedded on mortar, if its pointed it will fall out again! The way to do this is the 3rd tile up from the eaves you push back until the back of the tile below (the second) is showing, measure the overhang first (from the edge of the fourth tile to the edge of the third).

You then remove the last two course of tiles (measure where the battens are) and battens, should be able to remove the felt and see whats going on, repair?, first course, stringline new felt tucked under those above + battens, 2nd course, GALVANISED clout nails then gently wiggle the third course back into position, a real pain off ladders.

Of course for insurance purposes she has a little water coming in as in your pics – even if a loss adjuster comes out, someone you know must know a decent roofer for estimates.

 

[silverdale]

Thanks, yeah roofer her best, I qas just wanting to look and check it out then if it was something I could see and sort so she'd know were she stands with it all.

I went in the loft and crawled to the corner.
Theres plenty of air circulating as the blue breathable was moving and I could see daylight at the ends along back and front. There's a baton that runs along the end so the insulation can't go right to the very end.
I could feel the air so as far as I could see nothing looked untoward.

 

[willin]

Very good, I'm sure you'll see that she's not took advantage of. Lets hope her insurer plays ball.

 

[silverdale]

Yeah will do and thanks for taking the time to read and reply much appreciated

 

[Oggiman]

Very good, I'm sure you'll see that she's not took advantage of. Lets hope her insurer plays ball.

Hope the insurer doesn't question;

Age and maintenance of roofing work,
Competence of initial work undertaken.

I've experienced when insurance company tried to avoid paying out for repair.

 

[willin]

All Insurers will generally avoid paying out for the slightest thing, I have experience of these things, for an insurer to prove what your suggesting (they are obliged to prove other than what is reported) would be expensive, depending on meeting a few criteria (she tells them the roof is 12 yo, pics of damp, circumstances - widowed lady on her own etc) they often ask the insured to obtain estimates, depending on cost they COULD authorise the work or instruct their authorised repairer to inspect it.

Non of the above will cost this lady a penny. All if's and but's, worth a try.

 

[cactikid]

Looking at the photo of window , vent and upper brick is it a different colour than the lower one and a bit of black at the top and near window thinking it is wet?

 

[Grimeire]

former carpenter here and did a lot of roofs in my day.

The issue may not necessarily be the ridge need pointing like suggested and I would not worry that the first row of times were not nailed. They never nail tiles to battens back in the day and even though it was refelted 12 years ago would not mean it was done then as old tiles can break very easily and if it was me i would not of nailed them due to likely breaking them.

I seen a similar issue to this a few years ago and it had me stumped for a while. Like in your case it was an end terrace house. Until your issue is was a slate roof so there was a lot of slates that would need to be removed to investigate. First we assumed the ridge and repointed it as it was not in the best condition but that did not work.

After taking off the slates we found pretty quickly that as the house a few houses up had a few broken slates and the water was getting through there and was running down the felt and then as the houses were slight off level the water was running down the felt at the eves as the felt was not pulled tight. The water then got to the house we were working on and as it had a few tiny holes in the felt was dripping down to the room below.


In your case i would definitely recommend taking off the the few tiles around the area. Just push up the 3rd or 4th row and then you should be able to easily lift up the tiles below and you will be able to see the water marks to identify where the water is coming from.

If that does not shed any light on the situation i would go there when its raining as the join between gutters could be linking and dripping on to the external wall and the damp could be coming in from there.

Also is there a water tank in the roof where the issue is and if so is it covered?

Another thing worth trying is putting your hand down between the overlapping felt inside and seeing if the felt is damp on the tile side or if you can touch a batten seeing if that is damp or rotten.