Rangers FC Thread

HMRC show SFA/SPL the way in terms of sanction

If you look at HMRC rejection of CVA it is a more reasoned approach to sanctions than the clamour for punishment we are seeing from Scottish Foootballl.

Effectively they couldn't accept CVA as it wouldn't allow them to fully pursue those responsible i.e Craig Whyte and David Murray.

Rather than go for a from of liquidation that would kill the club off they have allowed football club to be sold to another company so that it is free to continue playing and in fact talk about club being able to have fresh start free from further liability.

Contrast that approach with that of Scottish football and the media who seem to be looking for the maximum punishment to be applied to the football club and not the individuals reponsible.
 
Why are a lot of us talking as if the sky has fallen in? Don't believe the sensationalist guff in the media guys. What will now happen to our club is a TUPE. Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment), which is a transfer of an economic entity that retains its identity.

The transfer of "the club" to the new corporate shell will take place before liquidation, (possibly as soon as this week), and then that leaves the present corporate shell for the liquidators to do with as they see fit.

In other words, our history, (and this is not even up for question) remains intact, and the actual football club, its assets, and its players will not be part of the liquidation. The club will be protected, inside the corporate shell of the new company, from any further legal action, and will have a debt free clean slate.

Here's a link to how a TUPE works:Transfer of undertakings (TUPE) - Factsheets - CIPD
 
dont think we've every been liquidated im not sure about the other clubs you mention but we only went into administration.

some links
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Leeds+unt+liqidated&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=hx3&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:eek:fficial&channel=fflb&sa=X&ei=mELYT6eDNYXj8QOs7ZmHAw&ved=0CAgQvwUoAQ&q=Leeds+unt+liquidated&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=23c46a8a22f8bacf&biw=1422&bih=727
Phoenix Companies - Leeds United: did Ken Bates break the law? | Mercer & Hole | UK
How do the anti-phoenix provisions of s216 Insolvency Act 1986 work in real life?

Ken Bates was a director of the old Leeds United Football Club Limited (company number 05334247) ("Oldco") from 17 January 2005 until 7 March 2006. Oldco went into compulsory liquidation on 6 March 2006.
He was also a director of The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited ("AFC") from 20 January 2005 until 4 May 2007. AFC went into administration on 4 May 2007.
Since 21 January 2005 he has been a director of:
Leeds United Stadium Limited ("Stadium");
Leeds United Retail Limited ("Retail"); and
Leeds United Investments Limited ("Investments") .
Stadium and Retail went into compulsory liquidation on 27 June 2007.

So far, so good:

When Oldco went into liquidation Mr Bates had been a director of the other Leeds United companies for more than 12 months.
Under the "third exception" in r4.230 Insolvency Rules 1986 he therefore did not have to apply to court for permission to continue to Act as a director of those companies.

But:

Investments was dormant at some time during the 12-month period before Oldco's liquidation. It filed dormant company accounts for the years ended 30 June 2005 and 30 June 2006.
The third exception does not apply to a company that has been dormant at any time during the 12-month period.

So:

Unless Mr Bates applied by 13 March 2006 for leave to act as a director of Investments, and was given leave before 17 April 2006, making use of the "second exception" in r4.229, he was in breach of s216.
He could therefore be subject to criminal penalties. Although Investments may be dormant he could also be liable personally for any debts it may incurs during the 5 years to 6 March 2011.

Chapter 2 - Summer 2007

Shortly before AFC went into administration on 4 May 2007, Mr Bates became a director of Leeds United 2007 Limited (1 May 2007) and Leeds United Football Club Limited (company number 05765697) ("Newco") (3 May 2007).

The Guardian reports here that:

KPMG, AFC's administrators, think an application to court was made;
HM Revenue & Customs, a creditor challenging the Company Voluntary Arrangement proposed by AFC's administrators, thinks that Mr Bates does not have the court's permission to act as a director of Newco;
the Insolvency Service has no notice of any such application; and
Mr Bates made no comment.

Unless Mr Bates obtained leave of the court to act as a director of the two companies before he began to act, he would be in breach of s216.

The "first exception" under r4.228, notifying creditors when a new company acquires the business from an administrator or other appointed insolvency practitioner, could not apply in this case as Mr Bates was already a director of Newco. This difficulty is explained in our previous post here.

The law may be changing to overcome that difficulty (from 6 August 2007, as explained in previous posts, here and here), but that change will not be retrospective and will not help in this case.

A real challenge for Mr Bates is that if he did not have permission, it is too late, he is in breach and may well be liable for Newco's debts up to 6 March 2011.

As an aside, Mark Taylor, Mr Bates' solicitor, became a director of Newco on 4 April 2006, two months before Oldco went into liquidation. He was also a director of Olcdco and was caught in the trap highlighted in our previous post, arising from the decision in Churchill & Anor v First Independent Factors & Finance Ltd [2006] EWCA Civ 1623 (30 November 2006). He cannot have applied to court successfully unless the court took the highly unusual step of granting retrospective permission.

What went wrong?

They used the wrong company to buy the business (and may have failed to make an application).

Leaving aside the 2006 problem of Investments, Messrs Bates and Taylor should have obtained permission from the court before becoming directors of the company they used to buy the business from the administrators. There was plenty of time to have done so between 1 May 2007 (if not before) and 10 July 2007 when Newco bought AFC's business from the administrators.

So did Ken Bates break the law?

I don't know, but he has to have made some timely and successful court applications to have avoided breaching s216!

Keywords: s216 phoenix 'Leeds United' 'Ken Bates'


Parent Company Directors

In 1996, Caspian Group purchased the club from shareholders for £16m. Months later, Caspian Group became a PLC and changed its name to Leeds Sporting PLC. During this period, the club had two Boards of Directors - one for the football club and one for the parent company. The name of the PLC was changed to Leeds United PLC in 2001. The parent company had four chairmen, Chris Akers (June 1996 - July 1998), Peter Ridsdale (July 1998 - April 2003), Prof. John McKenzie (March-December 2003) and Trevor Birch (December 2003 - March 2004)

In 2004, the PLC went in to administration and administrators, Ernst and Young sold the club for £30m to Adulant Force Ltd - a private consortium headed by Gerald Krasner. Several weeks later, the PLC was liquidated.

Listed below are directors of the parent company first created as Caspian Group and liquidated as Leeds United PLC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United_A.F.C._personnel
 
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That lot really are thick, let them say what
They want .
Give it 3 weeks and they will be playing the victim card
Once again.
WATP
 
The way we wear our scarves
The way we fill with glee
The memory of all that
No they can't take that away from me
The way we shout and scream
The way we sing off key
The way it fills our dreams
No, no they can't take that away from me​

IbroxMainStand1.jpg
 
CHEATS OR CHEATED?
Beaks should give Gers fans break while probes and battles rumble on
ANALYSIS By James Traynor


Photo captions: ENDURING HISTORY The footballing feats of the likes of club legend John Greig, who was honoured with a statue outside Ibrox, will never be forgotten
NO more than a good John Greig clearance away from Hampden one of the world's oldest clubs lies dying. And no one on Hampden's sixth floor even bats an eyelid.

No one up there in the offices of the SFA and SPL said a word.

Rangers FC as we know them are dead. It's all over. They are about to shut down for ever but not a single person among the game's hierarchy was open for comment.

And that just about sums it up for Rangers, the club the rest of the Scottish game came to detest.

We are still waiting for the verdicts on EBT schemes and dual contracts but the fans of every other club have passed judgment. Rangers are guilty.

Of course they are. They're cheats and liars. Everybody knows that. They can't help themselves, it's in their DNA.

And of course they must be stripped of their titles, trophies and dignity. Oh, and don't forget those five stars above their badge, Get them torn off as well.

It's all madness rooted in jealousies and twisted logic. Rangers have a seriously bad lot but the majority of the people who support the club are decent.

Yet everywhere so many people are waiting to dance on this club's grave.

Well, they should get their pumps and tap shoes tied up because it won't be long now. Yesterday the CVA proposal put forward on behalf of Charles Green by administrators Duff and Phelps was rejected by HMRC.

They didn't even wait until tomorrow's creditors' meeting, although that will still go ahead.

But Rangers FC won't. They'll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended.

No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died.

They were closed and a newco must start from scratch although their fans will insist the history will be boxed up with the strips and balls and carried into the future with the new club.

Technically that history belongs to something else, some other company but even though the governing bodies appear consumed by technicalities and protocol supporters have other priorities.

They strive for continuity and Rangers fans will never be separated from or denied their past.

The name might change slightly, there will be a new owner, new players and a new beginning. But somehow nothing will have changed for many of the people who buy the tickets.

HATRED They'll never forget and they'll remember yesterday, too. Even though they and everyone else knew the decision to accept or reject Green's CVA was 50-50 this was such a momentous day in the history of Scottish football.

Yet, unbelievably neither the SPL nor the SFA had anything to say as Rangers' death warrant was signed.

Maybe they were bored, or maybe even stupefied by the twists and turns, outlandish demands and hopes, claims and counter claims which started in May last year and then began clattering down relentlessly since February.

With the noise and the clamour it has been difficult to make sense of it, to keep track and to understand the hatred and lack of compassion. It is almost scary that so many fans cannot see how damaging Rangers' demise is to the game in general.

Whether you like them or not they are important. Along with Celtic they are the engine that drives our game.

But the dislike hasn't been confined to the cheap seats. Other directors and chairmen have also relished watching Rangers fail and then fall.

Yet they should have known better and despite the voices of reason saying be careful what you wish for those clubs who have sounded off about sporting integrity will now have to be true to their own word.

If they have been listening to their fans, as a number of them claim, then they won't allow a newco into the SPL.

But let's just see if, when the time comes to vote, enough of them keep their hands down when asked if they want a reformed Rangers back in.

And they'll have to do this quickly because fans will need to know which teams will be in which divisions before buying season tickets. The SPL and SFL will produce their fixtures on Monday and although Rangers will be found in the top-flight schedule it remains to be seen if they'll actually be playing there.

But can the SPL do without Rangers and their supporters? They may have been suggesting they can but it will not prosper without Rangers and this is what all the chairmen, despite their bravado, will have to consider.

It was easy, and also foolish, to be bold when Duff and Phelps suggested HMRC had hinted they might accept the CVA but now the moment of truth has arrived for these clubs. And what will force the issue? Pressure from fans or pressure from banks? Of course, they could let them back in while insisting the new club has to accept penalties for the behaviour of the old, especially if the SPL enquiry finds Rangers guilty of issuing players dual contracts with their EBTs.

Also, the SFA have still to work out what sanction to impose on the current Rangers who succeeded in getting a 12-month signing ban overturned in the Court of Session. The SFA will demand the new sanction be inherited by the newco but it seems to me more than a few on one side of this saga are in danger of becoming a little vindictive.

GUILTY Of course Rangers are guilty of shaming the game and they accept they have to be punished. But how many more times must they be kicked? Despite the baying mob and their crazy notion that Rangers should be shunned because they are cheats the fact is this club and these fans have themselves been cheated. If there is anything in their DNA make up that's irrational or wrong it is their love of their club and this game.

Get over the mock outrage and come down from the moral high ground.

Few fans of any club have any right to be up there in any case but now, as Scottish football arrives at a crossroads let's try to think straight. How about cutting Rangers some slack and doing the game a turn at the same time?
Reply With Quote
 
It's either a totally new Club or it's not.

If it is then there can be no punishments earned by a former club imposed on the new Club.

The rationale is simple.

The Rangers remain and any historical punishment imposed, by the most vindictive National Football Association on earth, only serves to confirm this.
 
we will never forget

We will remember your laughter
We will remember your cheers
We will remember your hatred
We will remember your sneers
We will remember you shouted about administration
We will remember you then wanted liquidation
We wil remember how you spouted all your lies
We will remember how you spoke of our demise
We will remember how you filled your papers with hate
We will remember how you all laughed at our fate
We will remember the bbc and radio Clyde
We will remember how their gloating they couldn't hide
We will remember guidi, young and speirs
We will remember how you laughed and wiped away tears
We will remember you said the players would get no pay
We will remember how you wanted our trophies taken away
We will remember how you said it was the rangers no more
We will remember how into our history you tore
But one day soon and it won't be long
We will remember those who have done us wrong
For we will be back and you can bet
Those who laughed we will never forget
 
SFA and SPL take note
The HMRC have shown their hand and laid the blame on Murray and Whyte not Rangers FC and thier fans. The same club and fans you so delightfully stuck the boot into while neglecting your duty to one of your member clubs. I hope BDO investigate why you granted us our licence,without challenge,every year while EBT's were shown in the accounts.
 
Mate take a breathe please ;)

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk 2
 
some links
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=L....,cf.osb&fp=23c46a8a22f8bacf&biw=1422&bih=727
Phoenix Companies - Leeds United: did Ken Bates break the law? | Mercer & Hole | UK
How do the anti-phoenix provisions of s216 Insolvency Act 1986 work in real life?

Ken Bates was a director of the old Leeds United Football Club Limited (company number 05334247) ("Oldco") from 17 January 2005 until 7 March 2006. Oldco went into compulsory liquidation on 6 March 2006.
He was also a director of The Leeds United Association Football Club Limited ("AFC") from 20 January 2005 until 4 May 2007. AFC went into administration on 4 May 2007.
Since 21 January 2005 he has been a director of:
Leeds United Stadium Limited ("Stadium");
Leeds United Retail Limited ("Retail"); and
Leeds United Investments Limited ("Investments") .
Stadium and Retail went into compulsory liquidation on 27 June 2007.

So far, so good:

When Oldco went into liquidation Mr Bates had been a director of the other Leeds United companies for more than 12 months.
Under the "third exception" in r4.230 Insolvency Rules 1986 he therefore did not have to apply to court for permission to continue to Act as a director of those companies.

But:

Investments was dormant at some time during the 12-month period before Oldco's liquidation. It filed dormant company accounts for the years ended 30 June 2005 and 30 June 2006.
The third exception does not apply to a company that has been dormant at any time during the 12-month period.

So:

Unless Mr Bates applied by 13 March 2006 for leave to act as a director of Investments, and was given leave before 17 April 2006, making use of the "second exception" in r4.229, he was in breach of s216.
He could therefore be subject to criminal penalties. Although Investments may be dormant he could also be liable personally for any debts it may incurs during the 5 years to 6 March 2011.

Chapter 2 - Summer 2007

Shortly before AFC went into administration on 4 May 2007, Mr Bates became a director of Leeds United 2007 Limited (1 May 2007) and Leeds United Football Club Limited (company number 05765697) ("Newco") (3 May 2007).

The Guardian reports here that:

KPMG, AFC's administrators, think an application to court was made;
HM Revenue & Customs, a creditor challenging the Company Voluntary Arrangement proposed by AFC's administrators, thinks that Mr Bates does not have the court's permission to act as a director of Newco;
the Insolvency Service has no notice of any such application; and
Mr Bates made no comment.

Unless Mr Bates obtained leave of the court to act as a director of the two companies before he began to act, he would be in breach of s216.

The "first exception" under r4.228, notifying creditors when a new company acquires the business from an administrator or other appointed insolvency practitioner, could not apply in this case as Mr Bates was already a director of Newco. This difficulty is explained in our previous post here.

The law may be changing to overcome that difficulty (from 6 August 2007, as explained in previous posts, here and here), but that change will not be retrospective and will not help in this case.

A real challenge for Mr Bates is that if he did not have permission, it is too late, he is in breach and may well be liable for Newco's debts up to 6 March 2011.

As an aside, Mark Taylor, Mr Bates' solicitor, became a director of Newco on 4 April 2006, two months before Oldco went into liquidation. He was also a director of Olcdco and was caught in the trap highlighted in our previous post, arising from the decision in Churchill & Anor v First Independent Factors & Finance Ltd [2006] EWCA Civ 1623 (30 November 2006). He cannot have applied to court successfully unless the court took the highly unusual step of granting retrospective permission.

What went wrong?

They used the wrong company to buy the business (and may have failed to make an application).

Leaving aside the 2006 problem of Investments, Messrs Bates and Taylor should have obtained permission from the court before becoming directors of the company they used to buy the business from the administrators. There was plenty of time to have done so between 1 May 2007 (if not before) and 10 July 2007 when Newco bought AFC's business from the administrators.

So did Ken Bates break the law?

I don't know, but he has to have made some timely and successful court applications to have avoided breaching s216!

Keywords: s216 phoenix 'Leeds United' 'Ken Bates'


Parent Company Directors

In 1996, Caspian Group purchased the club from shareholders for £16m. Months later, Caspian Group became a PLC and changed its name to Leeds Sporting PLC. During this period, the club had two Boards of Directors - one for the football club and one for the parent company. The name of the PLC was changed to Leeds United PLC in 2001. The parent company had four chairmen, Chris Akers (June 1996 - July 1998), Peter Ridsdale (July 1998 - April 2003), Prof. John McKenzie (March-December 2003) and Trevor Birch (December 2003 - March 2004)

In 2004, the PLC went in to administration and administrators, Ernst and Young sold the club for £30m to Adulant Force Ltd - a private consortium headed by Gerald Krasner. Several weeks later, the PLC was liquidated.

Listed below are directors of the parent company first created as Caspian Group and liquidated as Leeds United PLC.
Leeds United A.F.C. personnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


you didnt need to go do a google mate ;) ..... leeds position was self made by bates, he got us (came in) in administration and the rest has been deceiving moves from company to company, theres too much in it hence why the football league wanted more transparency over who owned clubs etc... leeds where in trouble but didnt go into real liquidation (self inflicted by bates for profit), ken bates is a weasel and anything that happened to leeds after administration was planned doing so he could buy the club back under another company and clear debts and make himself more money. i mean he bought the club back for a quid or something and when he did he'd cleared all our debts amazing right...hence we got a 10 point deduction the next season. it was all about clearing the huge debt. we had others wanting to buy the club but he sold it back to himself basically.

i dont know the exact ins and outs i dont think anyone does but bates was behind the lot and the other offers on the table where better offers for the club yet bates gets it back from himself..funny eh?

tell you what we want the old **** out, send me the rangers tel number and i'll pass it on...he'll screw you for years but you will survive. ;)

one thing i will say though is thers a lot of unnecessary posts in here, your club is too big to fold, you might have to do a leeds and **** about with a shit team for years but through thick and thin right? ive had to endure league one football from the heights of champions league.

relax.
 
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it has to be relegation, for me rangers should start again in Div 3.
 
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it has to be relegation, for me rangers should start again in Div 3.

I think that would be a good idea,
Shouldn't take long to get back to the premier league

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk 2
 
put it this way if that happens you still have a club, you'll get shit from the other side, we still get it now from the mancs and you will from your rivals but even though they "think" they have one over you most of the jibes just go whooosh over the heads of all our fans, we know it wasnt our doing it was the boards doing and we as fans are the same ones who out sung and out fought them for years.

its just history it doesnt change you as a fan, but i will say its gutting watching your team lose to the like of doncaster from the heights of beating teams in the champions league.

you get the odd reminder tho in cups (lufc 1 - mufc 0) that keep you going for a bit, but it is shite being in the lower leagues and we have been there too long because of bates lack of investment. hell you lot will probably be back in the top league before leeds are you just need tostart afresh and get someone who will spend money (without bankrupting you).
 
Still gonnae miss nights like this for a while.

Rangers v Leeds The Battle of Britain Documentry

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RST Board statement
Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:02

“These are some of the darkest days in our club’s history and like all supporters we are saddened by the news of the company’s liquidation. The only positive is the news that liquidators will be holding a robust investigation which we hope will ensure those who contributed to this sorry mess are held to account. Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte, David Grier and Donald Muir have serious questions to answer and this investigation should leave no stone unturned as it seeks to understand how this great institution finds itself in such an appalling state.

“It is also important we look to the future and work to ensure that the new-co will return the club to its proud and successful traditions. In order to achieve this transparency and proper accountability must be built into any future ownership so no one individual has single-handed control of the club. Rangers supporters will be the biggest investors in the new-co as they pump millions of pounds of season ticket money into the new business almost straight away so they must have a say on how this is to be spent. Any monies being put in should not be taken back out repaying a loan or converted into shares for any individual or consortium.

“The Rangers Supporters Trust is working on long term options that would give fans a greater say in the running of the club as well as giving fans a greater role in holding owners to account. We are working with financial and legal advisers to finalise the details of these plans and will be sharing them with the administrators and any potential new owners, in the near future. These plans may well include calling in the pledges made by thousands of supporters to the SaveRangers website. We will be sharing more information at the earliest opportunity.”
 
Project2-4.jpg


Former Rangers manager Walter Smith has confirmed that he is leading a new bid to buy the club.

Mr Smith said he would be assisted by Jim McColl, Douglas Park and "other prominent Scottish businessmen".

BBC Scotland understands that the deal is worth £6m, which is half-a-million pound more than the current offer from Charles Green.

Rangers faces liquidation after creditors refused a deal to allow it to emerge from administration.

In a statement issued on Thursday, Mr Smith said: "I can today confirm that following talks over the last few weeks I am leading a new bid for Rangers Football Club.

"I have been assisted by Jim McColl, Douglas Park and other prominent Scottish businessmen with a shared objective - that Rangers Football Club should be in the hands of Rangers people who will stabilise the club and protect it from future situations like we find ourselves in today.

"With this in mind, representatives have, on behalf of my group, made representations to BDO, Duff and Phelps and indeed Charles Green, notifying them of our willingness to offer on the "Newco" basis on which Mr Green is proceeding."

Mr Smith said his group was now calling on the Green consortium to "step aside" and allow his group to proceed "in the best interests of the creditors, the employees, the fans and the various other stakeholders of Rangers Football Club".

He added: "None of our group has any desire to own Rangers Football Club but we have put this deal in place to save the club.

"However, our overriding objective is to ensure that the stadium, the history and everything else magical about Rangers Football Club is protected and nurtured back to good health and provide a platform for Rangers for generations to come."

The former Everton football manager made it clear that that the deal was "designed to stabilise the club and ensure history does not repeat itself".
'Right people'

He said: "We are not in this to take money out of the club but more so to do whatever it takes in a turnaround plan to ensure within a few years the club can be passed on intact and to the right people.

"The supporters should be under no illusion that it will be extremely hard but with their support we can overcome financial hardship that lies ahead by lending their support to what we feel is the correct way forward - for Rangers people who know the club inside and out to control its destiny.

"The prominent Scottish businessmen involved have agreed to provide acquisition funding to allow myself and a management team to take on Rangers Football Club and make the business self-sufficient with long term sustainability being essential."

The Charles Green-led consortium had an agreement to buy the club's assets for £5.5m.

Mr Smith ended his statement by saying he hoped the new offer would be "fully supported by everyone in the Rangers Family", saying that "without them the club cannot and will not survive".

He added: "We therefore want to ensure honesty and transparency in everything we do.

"We want to rebuild Rangers Football Club and in doing so return the institution to the standards it is known for."
 
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