Police held down an innocent man on train and put a gun to his head

[FUBAR69]

no, not illegal. However I dont think the police forces should be able to operate like this.

But given the circumstances I dont blame them for having these sorts of procedures. Everyone was very tense at the time and they had been given very specific orders that day when they were following him.

Ok then, so you ARE ok with execution of civilians on the streets of the UK ? if you dont think it is illegal then you must........

Wise man say :~ man who sit on fence get sore arse :Wave:

 

[Bronto]

I think you have put things into perspective Fubar m8, The shooting was at a time not long after the tube bombings and attempted bombings, just try and put yourself in the firearms officers posistion at that moment in time .. you are told over the radio that this is a positive ID of a suspected terrorist who has just gone into a tube station and when challenged runs down the escalator and onto a packed train you grab him and he struggles, in your training you have been taught that a suicide bomber will 99.9% of the time in this situation still try to detonate the bomb, you have been told to shoot to kill in this situation to save public life, in this scenario I do agree with the police decision to shoot, in hindsight a bad one but just imagin the outcry if he had of had a bomb and the police had hesitated and he blew himslelf and about 60 or 70 innocent people with him

I think they were dammed if they did and dammed if they didn't

 

[sausagesoap]

Ok then, so you ARE ok with execution of civilians on the streets of the UK ? if you dont think it is illegal then you must........

Wise man say :~ man who sit on fence get sore arse :Wave:

your special innit? he aint saying its ok to execute innocent civillians he is syaing its ok to kill terrorists..

as for illegal orders they were not. and I wiould like to know what gives you the right to say you wouldndt do it.:SSEXY:

 

[FUBAR69]

I think you have put things into perspective Fubar m8, The shooting was at a time not long after the tube bombings and attempted bombings, just try and put yourself in the firearms officers posistion at that moment in time .. you are told over the radio that this is a positive ID of a suspected terrorist who has just gone into a tube station and when challenged runs down the escalator and onto a packed train you grab him and he struggles, in your training you have been taught that a suicide bomber will 99.9% of the time in this situation still try to detonate the bomb, you have been told to shoot to kill in this situation to save public life, in this scenario I do agree with the police decision to shoot, in hindsight a bad one but just imagin the outcry if he had of had a bomb and the police had hesitated and he blew himslelf and about 60 or 70 innocent people with him

I think they were dammed if they did and dammed if they didn't

So to hell with Habus Coprus ?... to hell with innocent until proven guilty?.... to hell with the benifit of the doubt?.....to hell with any of our human rights ?.... gee London got bombed..SHOOT ON SITE !!!!

Like I said it is double standards mate, the government denies a "Shoot to kill policy" in Northern Ireland for 30 years, but London gets attacked and feck it..."OPEN DUCK SEASON"

Rather than deal with the symptoms I think they should deal with the REASON, the suicide bombers are there to begin with?... or would that require looking inwards ?

And to think I thought Judge Dredd was far fetched.......... I am now genuinely scared....


Not ignoring anyone but its Sat night and the beer is calling me........:drink:

 

[FUBAR69]

your special innit? he aint saying its ok to execute innocent civillians he is syaing its ok to kill terrorists..

as for illegal orders they were not. and I wiould like to know what gives you the right to say you wouldndt do it.:SSEXY:

I think you will find it is freedom of speech

 

[sausagesoap]

I think rambo here has dellusions of grandure.

what do you know about making desicions like this?

 

[Bronto]

So to hell with Habus Coprus ?... to hell with innocent until proven guilty?.... to hell with the benifit of the doubt?.....to hell with any of our human rights ?.... gee London got bombed..SHOOT ON SITE !!!!

IMO When it comes to fighting terrorism then I'm afraid to say "Yes" to hell with all the above, terrorists fight dirty and we have to adapt (fight dirty also) or do what ever it takes to make our cities and towns safe to live in without fear of terrorism

Have a nice few beers m8 :Cheers:

 

[FUBAR69]

I think rambo here has dellusions of grandure.

what do you know about making desicions like this?

Like I said before the beer is calling me, and given the choice between you and beer, sadly you lose every time.


Rambo ?..... if you need to keep making things personal with name calling and little symbols implying that I am a ****** then perhaps you should think twice about getting involved in an adult discussion.


Apart from that you are going to make me cry :CRYBABY:

 

[FUBAR69]

IMO When it comes to fighting terrorism then I'm afraid to say "Yes" to hell with all the above, terrorists fight dirty and we have to adapt (fight dirty also) or do what ever it takes to make our cities and towns safe to live in without fear of terrorism

Have a nice few beers m8 :Cheers:

Cheers chum, leaving my heavy coat at home though :Cheers:

 

[FUBAR69]

habeas corpus has little to do with this. I think the term you were grasping in vain for is mens rae - the intention to commit a crime.

I know what I meant thanks, I meant we might as well throw the lot out completely, sack the judges and the solicitors(would kind of enjoy that actually) lol, and just have the police, and they can learn some more wonderfull tactics from the Isrealis, who as we all know are highly thought of on the human rights front.

Then we can get nice big fancy flying motorbikes for the cops and get Sly over to train them up....sorted.....why did I not think of this before !!!

@Karym6, for someone who says he knows the law you sure do have some wierd views

 

[FUBAR69]

wierd views simply because I don't agree with you?

No because you are happy to abandon so much of our legal system and just jump straight to the execution.




And do you not have to have actus reus to accompany your mens rae ?

 

[FUBAR69]

lol, someone has been hitting the wikipedia havent they?

No, just 40yrs at Oxford, the same as you

mens rae is one of the most important elements of any trial - unless you can establish the mens rae you are on to a loser.

I don't understand you mentioning this as your "suspect" would need to attend the trial in a wooden overcoat, which does not bode well considering what his last coat done for him !

In the case of a suicide bomber the actus reus would be them sucessfully blowing themselves up, so would have little impact on the police trying to stop them.

Like I said before, deal with the cause, not the symptom....

 

[MH]

Closed....before it gets out of hand this thread....we all know its Saturday Night and a few will have a drink and say too much!

Then will get banned......call it a ban save!