Sensible Topic EU migrants face wait of five years for benefits in Britain!!!!

avid said:
I don’t know about Rotherham but there is an area called Hexthorpe just outside Doncaster with a Romanian community and the police will only go there if there is a serious crime. My mate works on maintenance for Yorkshire police and over heard two police officers discussing the matter.
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Angry villagers warn of riots unless police act on Roma

3rd link on google, but it's from 2014, also the source is of questionable validity.

It alludes to Roma Gypsy's which are notorious for lack of integration, and wealth redistribution ;)

@silverdale, im sorry you haven't read War and Peace, Tolstoy was a genius imo. Im sadden you've made these claims, and then been unable to back them up. Then when called out upon them, you simply go back under your shell. Im happy to discuss and debate, but at least try and make things a little factual, and not just things you've heard down the pub off Dave.

With regards to places the police wont enter, I think there's one in most cities, we had one where I live, in fact we had a few. When I was in school, Bonymaen was the #1 place in the world for Car Theft. Police didn't go into there a lot either, but that was because of the local scallies, and nothing to do with immigration. It's still pretty rough there now, mainly due to social housing, and the benefits systems. Sadly it seems the answer to these problems, is to put all the trouble makers together, but that's a discussion for tomorrow.
 
Janobi, you said "By that argument, then why are we still taking stuff back from the Nazi's, they died years ago after all. Let's let all the people that benefited from it keep what's not theirs, after all they're dead now, so what does it matter?"
What stuff are we taking back from the "Nazis" (which I would assume now to be Germany) ?
It was only in the recent past that Britain stopped paying Germany "To help rebuild the Country and Economy" because of the damage we caused to them during the war.
Also you question about areas where East Europeans have enclaves where the Police will not venture, well I'm in Luton so "Down South" and it is one of many problems here.
I heard yesterday that Scotland will be the most affected place if East Europeans are stopped from coming there, I've been in Glasgow and never heard a single East European voice, yet the centre of Luton hearing a British voice is an unusual occurrence. So the East Europeans in Scotland must be in isolated country areas, fruit picking..................many are prepared to do this because the East European Communities set up "Help Shops" where they are are not just advised about what they can claim but have all their forms completed.
 
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Janobi, sorry but I dont need to defend anything bar my kebab from the dog which is far more important than reading that magna carta size post.
I'll print it to a toilet roll and read then use it later.
 
D 8 RCS said:
Janobi, you said "By that argument, then why are we still taking stuff back from the Nazi's, they died years ago after all. Let's let all the people that benefited from it keep what's not theirs, after all they're dead now, so what does it matter?"
What stuff are we taking back from the "Nazis" (which I would assume now to be Germany) ?
It was only in the recent past that Britain stopped paying Germany "To help rebuild the Country and Economy" because of the damage we caused to them during the war.
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Gurlitt Collection - Wikipedia

Just one example of how we're repatriating stolen Nazi artifacts.

@silverdale, please do. Im happy to hear other peoples views and opinions, and im just trying to share the wealth.

I'm sure the same arguments were used about Luton when the Caribbean people were welcomed eh...
 
janobi said:
Spectre I agree with most of your points, but this one I cannot agree with. Without Eastern Europeans doing this work it wouldn't be done. Unqualified people, students etc are not going to pick fruit for a living, as it's back breaking work, and they dont have the inclination to perform such work. Especially when they can just receive benefits and sit around all day.

Port Talbot for instance, it has a massive steel factory, now owned by Tata, the average wage there is around 40k, this is for unskilled labour, but includes danger money due to the nature of the work. The pension scheme there is also incredible, as are the benefits. The majority of men in the area will work in the steel works (If they can) as they know it's an extremely well paid job with benefits. Yet they have little to no skills when the steel works eventually goes bust (Which it will). The average wage in Wales in 12k per annum, so that's hell of a drop for those unskilled workers to take.

Those workers are certainly not going to start picking fruit, or serving coffee's as it'll be well below what they're used to earning, but they have no skills that are really transferable. Obviously there are highly skilled people as well, the engineers etc, but the majority of the work force is unskilled.
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Foodstuff didn't rot in the fields, someone used to pick it.

What has happened, is that people expect a better quality of life, better working conditions, better remuneration. We've opened the opportunity of these jobs up to Eastern Europe, where their conditions are worse. If you're a Bulgarian on £3 an hour, of course you're going to want to come here to get whatever minimum wage is, plus the freebies. This displaces the people that would have traditionally done these jobs, these people didn't go up a level, they were displaced. That will account for some of the UK citizens on benefits, I'm sure lots would like the chance of employment though.

These are "benefit shopping", looking around Europe for somewhere that will bestow the best largesse. This isn't a reciprocal arrangement though, the UK has brought more to the party than Eastern Europe. Which brings me back to the theory that to "solve problems", everyone is being brought down to the same level rather than elevated.

This is one of the reasons for the decline of manufacturing in the UK. People continually want a better quality of life and you can't get away from that. Little old gadgies in pubs will still bang on about the pit closures but, in reality, nobody wanted to go down the pit and they didn't want their sons to go down the pit. The UK pricing itself out of manufacturing isn't unique, it is happening in China. The reason they are so competitive is that assembly workers get very low pay and poor conditions. A lot of things still require hand-assembly and can't be automated. That's interesting to me as I know the next product I'm going to be working on is required to be 100% machine assembled. There goes our overseas assembly plant in a few years. That's how big business works, they will be looking at profitability in 5~10 years, increasing automation will do away with a lot of low-skilled workers in a few industries.

Where I work, 80% of manufacture takes place outside the EU. They will probably last 10~15 years before they are unprofitable. What will happen in the UK when automation is ramped up? Will all the EU workers that were doing low-skilled jobs that have been replaced by something automated go home? Will we have to look after them?

@silverdale mentioned someone in a doctor's reception. I've seen something like this; I was in a waiting room a few years ago and a Sikh came in, might have been 50ish. All he could say was a number and "Newcastle", which was strange as we weren't in Newcastle. The receptionist was getting frustrated after ten minutes of this as he literally could not speak English. He could not identify himself. The receptionist was trying to simplify it as much as possible "Your Name?"... She actually found him on the system, probably guessed he's called Singh and a wildcard search on the number he was repeating. She was asking "Is this you?". Eventually it was determined that it was him. What good is this person to our economy? What does he fill his days with?
 
Sorry Janobi, I don't want to appear that I'm picking on you but
"The problem is, that whilst they can get what they can without having to work they will continue to do so. Either drop benefits for all after 6 months, or lower what people are allowed to claim. I still find it incredulous that people are able to claim as much if not more than working a minimum wage job, surely that cant be right, and isn't encouraging anyone to go to work."
First of all I'll let you know that I am unable to work and have been on Benefits for about 5 years, mind you I had worked for almost 40 years prior to that happening and being on Benefits affected me so much I suffered anxiety and depression and ended up having a mental breakdown, being abused and down-trodden for being on Benefits really affects you health, as does the reality of no longer being able to provide for your family and then having to realise that you are not going to be able to work again is something that takes a lot of getting use to and accepting.
Yes there are those British and Migrants that are happy to claim Benefits and have no qualms about it, I purposely didn't say not work because many of these are working cash in hand, drug dealing, stealing and burgling and so have no problems with money (maybe those you know who have 2 or 3 holidays a year).
Job Seekers Allowance is £57.90 for under 25's and £73.10 for over 25's
Employment and Support Allowance are the same as JSA, but for those who are physically unable to work, a Work Related Component of £29.05 and a Support Component of £38.55 may be awarded but usually only after long term sickness and several "medical assessments".
Income Support for Singles is the same as JSA, Couples under 18 receive £57.90 and Couples over 18 receive £114.85.
You will only be awarded one of these Benefits.
Some of those above will be eligible for Housing Benefits but not all, this Benefit is to pay Rent or the Interest Only part of a Mortgage and again the payment may not always cover the full amounts.
Child Benefit of £20.70 for the oldest child and £13.70 for any subsequent children, can also be claimed for, this is eligible to everyone working or not on an income of less than £50,000.
If someone is working they can also claim Child Tax Credits which includes childcare costs up to £646.35 p/a for 1 child or £1,108.04 p/a for 2 or more children. Plus there is a Family Element of £545 p/a then the Child Element of £2,780 p/a (now only payable for a maximum of 2 children).
On top of the Child Tax Credit there is Working Tax Credits which are quite difficult to work out, it has a Basic Element is £1,960 but there are numerous other elements which you have to be eligible for (One of which is for EU Nationals working here).
So it needs to be remembered that it is not just the Unemployed and Infirm who are on Benefits, and the basic benefits paid out are certainly not more than the Minimum Wage.

Janobi, what are you doing to me ? "I'm sure the same arguments were used about Luton when the Caribbean people were welcomed eh... "
First of all the Caribbeans were asked to come to Britain to fill jobs that we did not have a large enough workforce for. It was also at the time that numerous companies in England requested skilled workers to come from Scotland, Wales and Ireland and so towns like Luton who had Vauxhall Motors, Electrolux, AC Delco, Lucus Aerospace and a few other airport related companies were expanding.
So Luton saw a large influx of Caribbeans, Scots, Irish and Welsh during the 1950's and 60's. During that time Caribbeans, Scots and Irish were made to feel unwelcome with pubs posting notices saying "No Blacks, Scots, Irish, Gypsies or Dogs". While the building of the M1 was at it's height the pub notices reduced to "No Irish or Gypsies".
 
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Spectre said:
Foodstuff didn't rot in the fields, someone used to pick it.
This displaces the people that would have traditionally done these jobs, these people didn't go up a level, they were displaced.
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Precisely. I was posting a couple of times in this thread but deleted them, your full post above did a better job anyway.
I was going to say that people did those "unwanted" jobs long before the free movement of the EU. I remember stories of people going on "holiday" to Blairgowrie in Scotland. They were staying on a farm fruitpicking by day and living it up at night.

Minimum Wage was originally introduced to protect those on low wages. Nowadays it is used as the benchmark for how little a wage an employer can pay, the Eastern Europeans have actually driven our wages down. Agency workers at Argos, Magna Park in 2004 were paid £7-50 an hour, in 2008 they were being paid £6 an hour and probably over 70% of the agency workers were Polish.

My town Nuneaton isn't that big with the town centre consisting mainly of charity shops, coffee shops/restaurant/cafes and nail bars. It now boasts at least 4 Turkish barber shops. They're relatively cheap, do an outstanding job and the shops are attractive. They have undercut "British" barbers and there is hardly one left..
Once all the competition are gone I expect they can up the prices. What happens to the British barber? find a different job or perhaps on benefits? Good chance there is a sizeable debt to be paid off after being ousted.

Automated carwashes have been disappearing for years thanks to the handwashes that sprung up everywhere. Mainly Romanian? They're even on the Sainsburys' car park here. I've seen half a dozen of them work on one car. They probably all share a house (HMO), shared bills including food and have very little outgoings. There's no competing against that.

Yes, praise them for trying to make their lives better by leaving their impoverished countries, but there is a price to pay and that is to slowly but surely bring us down to their level.
 
@D 8 RCS, no offence taken. You've explained your post well. Im sorry you're in the situation you're in, but you are one of the deserving ones from what you've said. You're certainly not a 3rd generation benefits person, or a 21 yr old who doesn't want to work. I doth my hat to thee.

Although what you've said about the pubs just re-enforces my point. These people were frowned upon and not welcome, much like the Eastern Europeans now. It was xenophobia, and that is all that it is today. But we seem to be amalgamating different arguments into one, which is the difficulty with politics in general.

Whilst the Caribbean people were invited, it didn't stop them getting deported (Windrush Scandal).

@Spectre, nice post, was wondering when you'd post, always an intelligent, concise response.

I cannot claim anything due to my wages, in fact im having to pay back overpayment of things that my wife was entitled too, because we didn't know about the threshold for claiming.

@chookey, what you've described is competition, economies of scale and economics in general. During the 90s there was a massive influx of Japanese business into Wales, this was for 2 main reasons. Labour was cheap, 12k per annum average wage. Secondly, it was for the massive grants the government was handing out like confetti to attract these companies. We've even got streets with Japanese names, as this was thought of a way to cement the relationship.

Fast forward about 15 years, and the majority of the companies have pulled out. For 2 main reasons, manufacturing costs have gone up in Wales (People unionised and wanted to be paid more), and the grants dried up from the WG. All these companies did was move to the next cheap labour country. Poland, Hungary and various other places, much like what is happening in China right now, with Vietnam, Thailand etc.

Nice to see some good responses, and discussion though, for me that's all it's about.
 
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janobi said:
Whilst this is good, it doesn't go far enough imo. It's not "immigrants" that are the bane of this country, sadly it's the british people themselves, who are an entitled bunch, and feel they should be able to live their lives without working, and just sponging off the system. I know people who work the system, holiday 2/3 times a year and have quite the life.

I also know other people that are 3rd generation benefits, and are super happy about it. The problem is, that whilst they can get what they can without having to work they will continue to do so. Either drop benefits for all after 6 months, or lower what people are allowed to claim. I still find it incredulous that people are able to claim as much if not more than working a minimum wage job, surely that cant be right, and isn't encouraging anyone to go to work.
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Spot on, as i Landlord you would not believe what people who are not prepared to work get.
They know how to play the system and as you stated it's 3rd gen going onto 4th, who think they are entitled that the state looks after them, no one is paying their stamp, that plus other issues are fookin the NHS and unsustainable state pension.

Honestly it drives me mad, i have 100's of expamples of people i know using the system, only yestaerday i seen one coming from the Food bank, it was a good bag as she had white/red grapes so she can sell it on for £5, i then asked her if she still wanted a used Washing machine she stated she needed, £30.....No she did not her care worker/charity had gotten her a new cooker/hob/washing machine/tumble and new bed matres/quilt an covers!!!!

She was then boasting she has at least £7k coming back from PIP as her appeal was won......Whilst she's there drinking cans, smoking fags.etc.

She lies and says she has PTSD...lol As her boyfrirend hit her years ago, she then does superficial self harm before her meetings!! It's all a joke to them!!

I know loads of examples of this, drives me fookin mad!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

It's down to Gov.
 
chookey said:
Precisely. I was posting a couple of times in this thread but deleted them, your full post above did a better job anyway.
I was going to say that people did those "unwanted" jobs long before the free movement of the EU. I remember stories of people going on "holiday" to Blairgowrie in Scotland. They were staying on a farm fruitpicking by day and living it up at night.

Minimum Wage was originally introduced to protect those on low wages. Nowadays it is used as the benchmark for how little a wage an employer can pay, the Eastern Europeans have actually driven our wages down. Agency workers at Argos, Magna Park in 2004 were paid £7-50 an hour, in 2008 they were being paid £6 an hour and probably over 70% of the agency workers were Polish.

My town Nuneaton isn't that big with the town centre consisting mainly of charity shops, coffee shops/restaurant/cafes and nail bars. It now boasts at least 4 Turkish barber shops. They're relatively cheap, do an outstanding job and the shops are attractive. They have undercut "British" barbers and there is hardly one left..
Once all the competition are gone I expect they can up the prices. What happens to the British barber? find a different job or perhaps on benefits? Good chance there is a sizeable debt to be paid off after being ousted.

Automated carwashes have been disappearing for years thanks to the handwashes that sprung up everywhere. Mainly Romanian? They're even on the Sainsburys' car park here. I've seen half a dozen of them work on one car. They probably all share a house (HMO), shared bills including food and have very little outgoings. There's no competing against that.

Yes, praise them for trying to make their lives better by leaving their impoverished countries, but there is a price to pay and that is to slowly but surely bring us down to their level.
Click to expand...

Yep, uncontrolled EU immigration HAS driven down UK wages, all experts state that, even Corbyn has stated it on record, i have the video.
 
avid said:
I don’t know about Rotherham but there is an area called Hexthorpe just outside Doncaster with a Romanian community and the police will only go there if there is a serious crime. My mate works on maintenance for Yorkshire police and over heard two police officers discussing the matter.
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I live in a town which has had a caravan site for travellers for as long as I can remember. Police, taxi drivers and others have always been reluctant to go there, so "no-go" areas existed long before mass EU immigration.
A recent report from the Pew Research Centre estimated that the number of illegal immigrants in the UK in 2017 was between 800,000 and 1,200,000. Obviously those figures have to be treated with caution, as they necessarily involve a lot of estimates, but are credible considering that the government's last estimate (in 2007) was between 417,000 and 863,000. Those people are being exploited by unscrupulous employers, paid cash in hand and contributing nothing in taxes (although they can't claim benefits either). They manage to get here despite the UK having border checks on people coming from every EU country except Ireland, so Brexit will do nothing to stop them. Aren't they the real problem, rather than EU citizens coming here to work legally?
 
bamber said:
I live in a town which has had a caravan site for travellers for as long as I can remember. Police, taxi drivers and others have always been reluctant to go there, so "no-go" areas existed long before mass EU immigration.
A recent report from the Pew Research Centre estimated that the number of illegal immigrants in the UK in 2017 was between 800,000 and 1,200,000. Obviously those figures have to be treated with caution, as they necessarily involve a lot of estimates, but are credible considering that the government's last estimate (in 2007) was between 417,000 and 863,000. Those people are being exploited by unscrupulous employers, paid cash in hand and contributing nothing in taxes (although they can't claim benefits either). They manage to get here despite the UK having border checks on people coming from every EU country except Ireland, so Brexit will do nothing to stop them. Aren't they the real problem, rather than EU citizens coming here to work legally?
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No, they're another problem
 
BP is not entirely English either.

Most relevant sources agree that 40% of the shares of BP are held in the United Kingdom, 39% of the shares are held in the United States, while the remaining 21% are held throughout Europe and the rest of the world. The largest single holder of shares is getting harder to track down. Generally an Internet search will lead to the other 9 leaders, roughly 23%:

BlackRock (New York) 5.9%
Legal & General (United Kingdom) 4%
Barclays Global Investor (owned by BlackRock) 3.8%
Norges Bank Investment Management (Norway) 1.8%
Kuwait Investment Authority (manages funds for the Kuwaiti Government) 1.75%
M & G Investment Management (UK asset owned by the Prudential) 1.67%
Standard Life (Scottish insurance company) 1.5%
Capital Research & Management Company (Los Angeles) 1.3%
China’s State Administration of Foreign Exchange 1.1%

Source Who Actually Owns BP? - Global Research

I live in the Medway towns in Kent & the local high street you will will not hear an English voice.
 
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