de-activated sky cards..end of c/s???

bod

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this makes for a good read.....this guys synopsis of how sky might be doing it
this guy also claims to have sky rom dump, hmmm

Forget the N lines guys, the Nline "trick" will foof everyone up

The question of interest should be (If I'm involved in CS'ing) is how did they get my card details, to be able to then ID the account and de-activate it?

If you are do CS'ing - say it's a small completely private network, with no reshares, etc. multiple C Lines for multi house boxes, not running off Sly internet - what's the chance of being deactivated? Almost zero - anyone that fits this (& I think there is only 1 so far) is a fluke from Sly's perspective. As are non CS folk with cards in the original STBs. It's all about data profiles - what profile do you fit, ring up 'cos entitlements have run out? Card never talks back? Only card on the sub? etc. It's no different to a Credit Scoring agency scoring Joe Bloggs and a lender saying no. In that case you can see the basic data the agency hold - but the lender will not divulge the scoring methods\algorithm.

In this case Sly hold the data and the scoring algorithm - do you think they'll tell you anything?

If however your F lines allow reshare, etc. what did you think was going to happen? Given an IP address - I could potentially knock on your front door & no that's isn't the stuff of Hollywood films. Whereas NDS don't require you're address.

I think it's entirely plausible to have a card cough up it's CAM id - if the ECM could be appropriately constructed. Whilst a lot of NDS knowledge does exist outside NDS - it's nothing compared to the internal knowledge and whilst the proof doesn't exist, my knowledge of related stuff lends to a hypothesis that once NDS have a C Line (i.e. an IP Address, user name, password & port Nbr) - it's entirely plausible and probable that a specially constructed ECM could easily provide CAMid and other info. After all when a card is first paired - do you think the box is told to pair with a specific card, or is the card told to pair with a specific box. If it's the latter - surely the card holds this pairing info. Does the card not also hold it's own ID? Why can't this be retrieved? Do the data packets not have space\redundancy?

Hand your server details out especially with reshares and we all know PayServers do "pimp" out folks shares (without them knowing about it) - this sort of thing will happen.
 

Ten Below

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Have also been following this one and have noticed that alot of the people disconnected have also been sharing with each other. Remember the big payserver bust across europe a couple of months ago? i think this is more likely where sky have got hold of peoples ips and traced those who have subs.
 

Smok3y666

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I have read one or 2 threads about c/s now saying that the end is nigh etc..... My sub is up at Chrimbo time and I was going to look into either using a pay server OR setting my own with friends and family, mainly family. Is this now a bad idea?
 

Ten Below

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The freinds and family sharing with only people you know and trust is definatley the safer choice Smok3y666.
 

thfccambs

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I have read one or 2 threads about c/s now saying that the end is nigh etc..... My sub is up at Chrimbo time and I was going to look into either using a pay server OR setting my own with friends and family, mainly family. Is this now a bad idea?

People using payservers is whats ruining our hobby, you should never use them.
 

pinkhelmets

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Since the guy is not sure of the technical method of initial pairing, I'm not convinced he's an expert. For sure people should still take the advice and have their own closed private shares. The details of the box, and the unique card id are stored on the card. If the server has client emm updates enabled then it is possible to retrieve this info remotely. I do not know of an ecm command that will return these private details, but if developed it would cause an interesting 'cat & mouse' game -just like the olden days, block~counter~block~counter~block... sounds fun to me :)
 

RavingLoony

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Since the guy is not sure of the technical method of initial pairing, I'm not convinced he's an expert. For sure people should still take the advice and have their own closed private shares. The details of the box, and the unique card id are stored on the card. If the server has client emm updates enabled then it is possible to retrieve this info remotely. I do not know of an ecm command that will return these private details, but if developed it would cause an interesting 'cat & mouse' game -just like the olden days, block~counter~block~counter~block... sounds fun to me :)

I think if you read the post - you'll see references to card pairing are rhetorical statements not questions.

After all when a card is first paired - do you think the box is told to pair with a specific card, or is the card told to pair with a specific box. If it's the latter - surely the card holds this pairing info. Does the card not also hold it's own ID? Why can't this be retrieved? Do the data packets not have space\redundancy?

The above "so called" questions weren't for folk to answer but for the average CS user to actually think for a moment.

HIH

RL

edit: Bod - the guy claiming to have Rom dump is someone else - not that one who wrote the synopsis you posted.
 
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RavingLoony

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it was late at night

I know the feeling mate.

As stated in the post you quoted and in later posts by that person, it's probably more to do with targeting cards being used outside the UK and those that have been inadvertantly peering with payservers.

It's a wake up call for folk to vet who they peer with and take security seriously!

I don't think it's the end of CS'ing. After all Sly's infrastructure is paid for - so they'd rather keep the revenue rather than bear the expense of going after every hobbyist and loose that revenue and risk a test case setting a legal precedent, and the negative publicity.
 

digidude

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their infrastructure may be paid for, but the investors and shareholders want to see a return on their investments.

imagine a pay server has 200 clients, all on full pack at £50 a month (slys fees) thats £10k a month they lose in revenue, now if they take down the server, and only 50% of those peers then take out an official sub, they upped their monthly income by £5k if a site has multiple servers, with 500 people on each one, then you see how sly work out that its costing them £100k+ each month just over a few sites servers

the pairing info is held on the card. you can have multiple cards paired to the same box as well

its the big pay sites that will be the downfall of the cardsharing hobby, and like ive said a million times, cccam is way to unsecure to trust
 

RavingLoony

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their infrastructure may be paid for, but the investors and shareholders want to see a return on their investments.

imagine a pay server has 200 clients, all on full pack at £50 a month (slys fees) thats £10k a month they lose in revenue, now if they take down the server, and only 50% of those peers then take out an official sub, they upped their monthly income by £5k if a site has multiple servers, with 500 people on each one, then you see how sly work out that its costing them £100k+ each month just over a few sites servers

the pairing info is held on the card. you can have multiple cards paired to the same box as well

its the big pay sites that will be the downfall of the cardsharing hobby, and like ive said a million times, cccam is way to unsecure to trust

Digi

Don't disagree with what you are saying at all but my reference to CS'sing and it not being potentially worth Sly's while to shut it down was purely in relation to Hobbyists.

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After all Sly's infrastructure is paid for - so they'd rather keep the revenue rather than bear the expense of going after every hobbyist and loose that revenue and risk a test case setting a legal precedent, and the negative publicity.

Paysevers are obviously a different kettle of fish.

Cheers

RL
 

SiKinn

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You cant really stop it with any decent control, you can put a limit rate on the ecm usage but that usually causes more problems than it helps.

Si
 

RavingLoony

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If you share using newcs how do you stop reshares?

Limit the circle to people you know and make it clear that if they try to circumvent the arrangement you'll cut them off. Also folk in the circle shouldn't really need to know who the others are.

If you've got folk in the circle who are likely to reshare without your knowledge, you're in bed with the wrong folk.

RL

p.s. Looking to move over from CCCam to NewCS & Something (probably MGCam) so interested in the answer and whether it applies to all clients or some.
 

digidude

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the easy way is to run newcs, and only allow mgcamd to connect

as for CS not being worthwhile for sky to chase in releation to the hobbyists, its always been that way when it was actual card SHARING, between a ring of people, but payservers exploit this, and the providors (not only sly) will activly try and stop it, and its the real hobbyists who lose out the most
 

RavingLoony

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as for CS not being worthwhile for sky to chase in releation to the hobbyists, its always been that way when it was actual card SHARING, between a ring of people, but payservers exploit this, and the providors (not only sly) will activly try and stop it, and its the real hobbyists who lose out the most

I see what you mean Digi. Payservers seem to be getting taken down with real world tactics - i.e. get a Cline, track it - run the address, etc. thru the system and then bust them. Or find some plonker selling "fully inclusive" subs on Ebay, car boots and PC fairs and buy one off him & then nick him.

What seems to be taking place would be no different to how they deal with other crimes. The hobbyists on the other are in a grey area and one can certainly say that what they are doing is against the T&C's signed with Sly - but it can't be said it's illegal. Sly appear to want to avoid a test case and are just cutting folk off. Again that seems to be as a result of taking pay servers down and finding genuine subs who let leeches in (on the whole).

I don't think it will be evolution on the technical front from a card perspective - not to say that it couldn't happen, but the cost isn't cheap and Sly have to justify the cost. Like all things a case of wait and see.

My 2c worth.

Going to have to look into NewCS and MgCamd! Even if security for me isn't an issue - but it is a lighter protocol (IIRC).

RL
 

atommo

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'Anger banger chaps. Sorry to be so thick, (seriously), but me and me mate were thinking of getting into this cs now we lost our DBox's on VM. Was thinking of sharing a sub between us and maybe a bit of family, (maximum 5 houses if we could ever get it working?), but reading this, my understanding is that we may be be singing up to something that could soon be blocked? Is my understanding correct, or, should we be ok for a year or so?

BTW, sorry if the above dont read very well, but Ive had a few tonight.
 
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