Irish police wearing turbins,what do you think?

Hi guys,

A controversial issue has arisen in Ireland regarding a potential police officer and practicing sikh wearing his turbin as part of his uniform.The Irish government has rejected this and caused a huge debate on the subject.What do you U.K. guys and gals think of this decision? Are we right or wrong?

Do you have a News link to this story ?

http://www.aol.in/news/story/2007081402589012000006/index.html

At the end of the day they give you a uniform to represent the police force. Therefore you should wear what you are given, ie headwear. If he wanted to work on a building site would he still be ok just to wear his turban and not a hard hat?

Lazarus said:

Hi Bronto,

I see you got the link below.On an unrelated matter can you tell me why my posting number keeps decreasing from time to time?

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Its usually due to post clocking

New members will not be able to post in the cable section or use the downloads until they have 20 posts and be a member for 2 days. Post clocking is not acceptable. It is monitored and post count will be reduced if necessary.

Post clocking is when members just reply to anything just to get the post count up.

earwig999 said:

http://www.aol.in/news/story/2007081402589012000006/index.html

At the end of the day they give you a uniform to represent the police force. Therefore you should wear what you are given, ie headwear. If he wanted to work on a building site would he still be ok just to wear his turban and not a hard hat?

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I've been on loads of bulding sites and in all the site inductions ive done, It clearly states that if you are of Sikh religion you are excluded from wearing a Hard hat..........

I think there is an argument for both sides here, but someone has to take a decision.

Bearing in mind that uniforms are available in a variety of sizes I wonder if any police force is willing to provide modified hats or modified uniform for people’s requirements.

Would this attitude be right: "if a uniform is provided it should be worn, otherwise don’t take the job".
If this is the case then you wont get many people with special requirements (for religious, faith etc. reasons) in these jobs.

Lazarus said:

Whats that m8?

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It's when new members post short "one liners" in multiple threads in order to get their post count up to 20 to enable them to get into the download section.
The mods look for posts like "what's that m8?" and "I agree m8" and delete the members count accordingly.
This is explained in the rules, paragraph 11

This is a forum where people chat and share knowledge, ideas and information.
It is not a rapidshare download site.

Cur1y

zg_uk said:

I think there is an argument for both sides here, but someone has to take a decision.

Bearing in mind that uniforms are available in a variety of sizes I wonder if any police force is willing to provide modified hats or modified uniform for people’s requirements.

Would this attitude be right: "if a uniform is provided it should be worn, otherwise don’t take the job".
If this is the case then you wont get many people with special requirements (for religious, faith etc. reasons) in these jobs.

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Totally agree, but at the end of the day its always going to be a "Grey" area

British Sikh policemen wear a modified turban. It shouldn't be a problem.

Lazarus said:

Hi Bronto,

I see you got the link below.On an unrelated matter can you tell me why my posting number keeps decreasing from time to time?

Click to expand...

As as been pointed out m8 some of your posts have been removed by myself and other mods because they have been deemed as "post clocking" this means that a post as little or no benefit to the forum and is usually done by new members who wish to push up their post count to over the 20 mark to access the Downloads, the "No Post Clocking Rule" is there for a reason, please try making your post a little more informative and helpful .. ie: your first post in this thread first class

Posts such as

Lazarus said:

Watch it pal!!!

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Lazarus said:

Does this mean my career as a musician is over

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Lazarus said:

Just let nature come in and hug you!

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Are not and will be seen as clocking and will be deleted

Hope this helps m8 and doesn't stop you having fun posting just please think about your posts to hit the 20

earwig999 said:

http://www.aol.in/news/story/2007081402589012000006/index.html

At the end of the day they give you a uniform to represent the police force. Therefore you should wear what you are given, ie headwear. If he wanted to work on a building site would he still be ok just to wear his turban and not a hard hat?

Click to expand...

The answer to that is yes, a Sikh who wears a turban is exempt from wearing a hard hat on a building site and same goes for wearing a helmet on a motor bike.

My opinion is the applicant has been a victim of direct discrimination had he been in the UK.

ACAS said:

Direct discrimination means that workers or job applicants must not be treated less favourably than others because they follow, are perceived to follow, or do not follow a particular (or any) religion or belief.

For example it is unlawful to:
• decide not to employ someone
• dismiss them
• refuse to provide them with training
• deny them promotion
• give them adverse terms and conditions
because they follow, or do not follow, a particular religion or belief.

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http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/f/l/religion_1.pdf

***EDIT***
UK law is different to Irelands law but I dont see why this law should be any different there. Unless they actively support racial discrimination.

zg_uk said:

I think there is an argument for both sides here, but someone has to take a decision.

Bearing in mind that uniforms are available in a variety of sizes I wonder if any police force is willing to provide modified hats or modified uniform for people’s requirements.

Would this attitude be right: "if a uniform is provided it should be worn, otherwise don’t take the job".
If this is the case then you wont get many people with special requirements (for religious, faith etc. reasons) in these jobs.

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Sikh Police officers have no problem accepting the uniforms. The UK police understand their Sikh identity made additions to the UK uniform accordingly so the turban is made a part of the uniform for Sikh officers.

Did you know their were Turban Wearing Sikh in the British Army fighting in WW1 & 2? They also wore turbans then.

so if they are excluded from wearing hard hats on building sites and a brick falls on their head and they end up with a serious injury who's to blame the company or them. Or do they have to sign a disclaimer so that the company is not liable.

rainbowboy said:

so if they are excluded from wearing hard hats on building sites and a brick falls on their head and they end up with a serious injury who's to blame the company or them. Or do they have to sign a disclaimer so that the company is not liable.

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THE EMPLOYMENT ACT 1989 - SIKHS AND HEAD PROTECTION
20 Section 11(1) of the Act exempts a follower of the Sikh religion from any legal requirement to wear a safety helmet while on a construction site ("any place where building operations or works of engineering construction are being undertaken"), provided that he is wearing a turban. Accordingly, turban-wearing Sikhs do not have to comply with any duty under reg 6 to wear head protection on construction sites (nor with the general duty under HSW Act s.7 in the same respects.)

21 Section 11(2) of the Act also exempts Sikhs and any other persons from any legal requirements connected with the wearing, provision or maintenance of safety helmets in relation to Sikhs on construction sites. Hence, employers and other persons in control of workers are relieved of their duties to a Sikh under regs 3, 4 and 5 provided that the Sikh is wearing a turban. In the same way, they are exempted from like duties under HSW Act ss.2, 3 and 4

22 Section 11(4) and 11(6) sets out the civil liability position when the above exemptions are in operation, and Section 12 protects Sikhs from racial discrimination in connection with requirements to wear safety helmets. These aspects of the Act are dealt with by the Department for Education and Employment, not HSE.

rainbowboy said:

so if they are excluded from wearing hard hats on building sites and a brick falls on their head and they end up with a serious injury who's to blame the company or them. Or do they have to sign a disclaimer so that the company is not liable.

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Is your question really relevant to this thread? I dont know about Personal Injury claims but im assuming its the employers fault as they have a responsibility to make sure all employees are working in a safe environment.

A person who wears a hard hat can still get injured if a brick fell on their head. So even if they had a hard hat on the employer still is liable against any personal injury claim.

ok so its curving the thread a bit but

a sikh turns up for a job interview on a site, he refuses to wear a hard hat, yet the employer is liable for any injuries, so the lawyer refuses to employ him on the grounds of health and safety, he then gets dragged through the courts for discrimination?

someone in this pussy whipped country needs to put their foot down and they need to do it NOW!

its basicly refusing to comply with H&S regulations, i would FORCE them to sign a legal disclaimer or there would be no offer of employment

political correctness and human rights are now getting laughably pathetic

political correctness and human rights are now getting laughably pathetic

I totally agree and i bet I'm not the only one

Bally12345 said:

Is your question really relevant to this thread? I dont know about Personal Injury claims but im assuming its the employers fault as they have a responsibility to make sure all employees are working in a safe environment.

A person who wears a hard hat can still get injured if a brick fell on their head. So even if they had a hard hat on the employer still is liable against any personal injury claim.

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Whilst the question wasn't directly related to this thread, it followed the thread train.
I thought his question was valid and I was also interested who would be liable, because I was under the impression that safety helmets where worn for protection against small accidents like a brick or hammer falling off a roof. I don't wear a turbin and I don't know how much head protection you would get from one.

digidude said:

ok so its curving the thread a bit but

a sikh turns up for a job interview on a site, he refuses to wear a hard hat, yet the employer is liable for any injuries, so the lawyer refuses to employ him on the grounds of health and safety, he then gets dragged through the courts for discrimination?

someone in this pussy whipped country needs to put their foot down and they need to do it NOW!

its basicly refusing to comply with H&S regulations, i would FORCE them to sign a legal disclaimer or there would be no offer of employment

political correctness and human rights are now getting laughably pathetic

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You clearly dont understand H&S regulations regarding Sikhs wearing Turbans. Do some research and post again. Also on a side note what you have just said

someone in this pussy whipped country needs to put their foot down and they need to do it NOW!

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is classed as racial discrimination.