Deleting and renumbering channels for using a TIVO

GaryTheGolfer

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Hi guys,

My name is GaryTheGolfer and I'm a Dreamaholic.........

I have Dreambox 500C with DW 1.6 and I'm struggling to "correct" channel numbers. I want to run DreamBox through Tivo. That implies mapping Dreambox channel/service numbers to N*L channel numbers since it is the Tivo EPG that I will use to change Dreambox channels. Easy I hear you say.......

I have used DreamBoxEdit to take a full Dreambox channel scan and then (painfully) edited every channel number to match N*Ls numbering system. I got it nearly perfect.....then S*y changed its movie channel names!!!

I rescanned to get the movies. These channels came up with 2 versions for each movie channel. (1 for PIN and 1 for "real" channel). No problem I thought. But S*Y's unwanted channels (the pin ones) are found every time I rescan and confuse the service numbering.

I used DreamboxEdit again to get the new channel list into PC and carefully renumbered to the system I wanted:

--------------------------------------------------------
Favourites (Bouquets):
Terrestrial (Ch 1-5)
.
.
News (Ch 95-99)
--------------------------------------------------------
N*L channel numbering (Services):
Ch 101 BBC 1
Ch 102 BBC 2
.
.
Ch 968 Premier (Radio)
---------------------------------------------------------
Ch 1000 for all other/unwanted channels/services
.
.
Ch 1220
---------------------------------------------------------
The plan was that channel up to 100 would be DreamBox favourite (for dreambox remote control use) and then Ch 101 to 968 would be for Tivo remote control use.

So far so good..................

BUT when I try to use dreamboxedit to upload the new channel numbers to Dreambox, the channels don't OVERWRITE the previous services/channel numbers. They fill in the channel gaps and also add them on the end. So I end up with channel numbers over 1500. If I repeat the process, it adds another 3-400 channel numbers. It wouldn't be so bad if the additional channel numbers could be ignored by Tivo but sadly, it "moves" the proper channel numbers eg UK Food channel should be 260 it becomes 262 then 277 then....

I have used Dreamedit's Reload instruction each time. I have tried rebooting. I have tried rescanning and rebooting. I have tried rescanning after disconnecting aerial....It doesn't delete existing services but just "adds" 0 additional channels.

(Using the Setup/Service organising/edit bouquets only appears to allow deletion of bouquets rather than services even though it hints at being able to delete services)

All I want to do is get my edited "perfect" new services/bouquets back on to a clean Dreambox. I have not discoved yet how to clear/delete the existing services/bouquets from Dreambox whilst leaving DW 1.6/Evocam intact.

I have tried deleting all channels from an old Services/bouquet list in DreamBoxEdit to make a dummy "Blank" services/bouquet listing and uploaded that to DreamBox.

I have read many many threads here (and alsewhere). All that address a similar problem seem to be saying/implying that DreamBoxEdit will simply overwrite whatever was on the DreamBox services/bouquets. That is not what I have found. Is there something simple I am missing. I have spent hours trying to get this right.

How do you simply erase all services?? I'm beginning to think it relates to how Services/Bouquets are installed or backed up.

HELP please! This is driving me nuts.
 
Got it done :)

Finally got it done.....but not sure why it didn't work before. Method:

Made a BLANK services set and uploaded to Dreambox to "Erase" existing services. Used DreamBoxEdit's (DBE) Reload
Did a full Scan
Downloaded Services set using DBE
Edited channel numbers to match Tivo EPG (ie N*L/VM) channel numbers....and set up bouquets to suit myself using channel numbers NOT used by N*L. ie Ch 1-100
Uploaded BLANK set again using DBE (and Relaoded)
Uploaded remapped Services/Bouquets using DBE (and Reloaded)

Both the BLANK and final Tivo-compatible Services sets have been uploaded to "Services and Bouquets" section.

I have now got Tivo EPG controlling Dreambox 500C just as I wanted it!!!

Thanks to all who read my original post and at least thought about the problem. The fact that no-one came up with a solution, encouraged me to believe it was me doing something wrong and to keep trying.

I'm off to get some ZZZZZZZZZZZZZs

Cheers
 
Well done Gary!!!

I know there are only a few members who use a TIVO so it's even better that you've managed to do it on your own. :)
 
I have a different meathod for MCE but like yours it is time comsumming so I have only done it with my favourites. If you have done it with all channels I wonder if you would mind uploading it so we can share please?
 
Uploaded Services

As mentioned above both the BLANK and the full remapped Servcies have been uploaded to the "Services and Bouquets" section. Please note that the bouquet listing has had to be limited to 100 channels to avoid conflict with Tivo EPG channel numbers.

Hope they help.

By all means let me know (PM0 if you find any errors. (I haven't tested the "educational" channels!)
 
Gary I'm ex c+w so I'm guessing will not work for me?
 
Hi Gary I may be in need of your advice I have recieved my dreambox today and was just wondering if my tivo would control it via the ir blaster and how iI would go about setting it up channels wise then low and behold the first thread I see when I get home is yours. Not sure about services and Bouquets or even how to flash the box yet but at least I no it can be done, I would think that the items you have uploaded will not suit me as I am in a telepest area but maybe the channel numbers are the same if I am lucky. Anyway I may have a few questions for you very soon cheers all Bonesy:FRIGHT:
 
Tivo works!!

Bonesy,
Well the good news is that Tivo does control Dreambox like a dream. In the Tivo setup, I am using:

Set-top box : DreamBox
Leading zeros : No
Enter to complete channel numbers : No
Use Front Infra red blaster : Yes
Code used : 200055 Fast

......unlike the Samsung SMT 2100C from N*L which refuses to accept repeated digits (which is a bit of a problem for channels like Film4 on Ch 444!!!)

To get you started, my initial thoughts would be:

1. Do a full scan for channels (assuming you have a UK-friendly image pre-installed (if not, then I would recommend Digitalworldz own 1.6.2 Enigma-based image be flashed)

2. I will try to upload/attach a text file listing N*L channel numbers (to save you the trouble). I can't guarantee it's 100% correct but should give you a good start. I made the list up in Excel using Tivo's EPG listing. You can copy and paste the text list straight into Excel. (It appears that DW site is "upgrading" at the moment so uploading isn't possible for a while). If I can't post now, I'll post later on. I found it useful to have a paper printout.

If your area uses different channel numbers, it may be worth using my list in Excel, and editing to match your Tivo channel list.

3. Get yourself a copy of DreamBoxEdit (DBE)

4. Get/make crossover ethernet cable (use google for wiring details).

5. Connect PC running DBE via ethernet to Dreambox (DB). DBE and DB may need to be set to the same ip address (probably not done by default).

6. Use the FTP button on DBE and use the "Receive files FROM Dreambox" button to download. Save file set which is Services (ie channel list/frequencies/sybol rate etc) and bouquets, if any, (bouquets would be called "favourites" in most satellite boxes)

7. Delete ALL services/channels in DBE and resave file set as BLANK set.

8. Use DBE via ethernet to DB again and FTP to "Send files to Dreambox"....so that all channels are effectively deleted from DB. Use DBE's "Reload" command button. Disconnect DB.

9. Using DBE, open your saved full scan set of files. Edit channel numbers to match (your) updated channel list. Create any bouquets/favourites required. Note that channels added to your bouquets start at 1 and are automatically numbered. This may limit you favourites (sorry bouquet channels) to 100 or less. DBE is really easy and powerful editor. If you want bouquets/faourites lists, DBE is the place to do it. Save revised file set.

10. Use DBE/DB/ethernet and FTP to "Send files to Dreambox". This should put your revised channel numbers and bouquets back on to DB. Press DBE's "Reload" button.

You should be finished now.

If/when you need help, just ask! Probably the biggest stumbling block is deciding/setting the matching ip addresses....depending on your familiarity with networking.

Cheers,
 
It should work.....

JonMMM,

Hi. I am not really familiar with the differences between "pure" N*L and ex-C&W. I would assume that the channel numbers are or will become similar for Telepest/N*L/ex C&W even if the carrier frequencies and symbol rates may be different. Tivo only seems to list two setups (Basic A and Digital Basic). If your channel numbers match Basic A, then you may have a slight problem with (2 digit?) channel numbers. Because Dreambox allocates bouquet (favourites) channel numbers automatically starting at 1, then you may be not be able to set Dreambox bouquets because they would conflict with Tivos channel numbers. However, this would only mean that you couldn't use Dreambox "favourites", you could still use Tivo's favourites....in fact you would ordinarily be using Tivo to control Dreamboix channels, wouldn't you?

In principle, the process should be similar. If you follow the method I have suggested to Bonesy, you should be able to get it to work I think.

Again, my N*L Channel List.txt file may be of some help as a starting reference.

If you need any help, let me know where you get stuck, what works or doesn't work and what differences you find, I'll do my best to help.

Good luck!
 
Hey this is interesting, good work Gtg.

I know nothing about TIVO and a quick google hasn't hugely helped in relation to what you are doing here... so can I ask some noob questions ?

I guess you have one cable feed going into TIVO, which RF out to Dream. Then Scart from Dream to TIVO which outputs to TV and you use TIVOs subscribed EPG and not the cable company one ?

In which case the TIVO records the analog output from the dreambox ? (And thus has no pixellated errors on playback like recording from dream to NAS can have, nor any macrovision issues ?)

Which tivo box have you ? I am gettin' all innerested now .... Do the chinese sell knockoffs I wonder . . . :eater:
 
Last edited:
JonMMM,

Hi. I am not really familiar with the differences between "pure" N*L and ex-C&W. I would assume that the channel numbers are or will become similar for Telepest/N*L/ex C&W even if the carrier frequencies and symbol rates may be different. Tivo only seems to list two setups (Basic A and Digital Basic). If your channel numbers match Basic A, then you may have a slight problem with (2 digit?) channel numbers. Because Dreambox allocates bouquet (favourites) channel numbers automatically starting at 1, then you may be not be able to set Dreambox bouquets because they would conflict with Tivos channel numbers. However, this would only mean that you couldn't use Dreambox "favourites", you could still use Tivo's favourites....in fact you would ordinarily be using Tivo to control Dreamboix channels, wouldn't you?

In principle, the process should be similar. If you follow the method I have suggested to Bonesy, you should be able to get it to work I think.

Again, my N*L Channel List.txt file may be of some help as a starting reference.

If you need any help, let me know where you get stuck, what works or doesn't work and what differences you find, I'll do my best to help.

Good luck!

Hi Gary,

It was the transponder and sybol rate that I think means that I would not be able to use your file.

Would it be possible for me to use you file but keep my services file?
 
Hey this is interesting, good work Gtg.

I know nothing about TIVO and a quick google hasn't hugely helped in relation to what you are doing here... so can I ask some noob questions ?

I guess you have one cable feed going into TIVO, which RF out to Dream. Then Scart from Dream to TIVO which outputs to TV and you use TIVOs subscribed EPG and not the cable company one ?

In which case the TIVO records the analog output from the dreambox ? (And thus has no pixellated errors on playback like recording from dream to NAS can have, nor any macrovision issues ?)

Which tivo box have you ? I am gettin' all innerested now .... Do the chinese sell knockoffs I wonder . . . :eater:

UK Tivos have been out of producation for about 6 years. There are no rip offs and US ones will not work over hear, basically the system works by Tivo dialling up a server each day to update its EPG, as it does this the server checks the motherboard serial number to see if the box is subbed if it is then it gets the EPG data if not then it does not. Basically Tivo is pretty useless with out the EPG
 
Tivos in UK

Just a few comments about Tivo.They do come up on EBay from time to time. They are hard drive recorders. I bought a lifetime subscription whilst they were still on sale. The alternative was to pay them £10/month sub. The daily phone calls to update the EPG are free. The breakeven point for going with the lifetime subscription was about 20 months I think (£200ish). So I am well pleased. It was initially a gamble on whether Tivo (UK) would survive 20 months. I bought mine from a branch of Comet when they were having a clearout......They seemed to have no idea what Tivo was (or how to sell it). I paid £110 I think.

The Ebay boxes often have lifetime subscription and upgraded hard drives (just like mine). They sell now for more than they cost new which ought to tell you something? Most spares are also readily available.

They are/were a fabulous box and I have yet to find as good/flexible/well though-out user interface and feature set with any other STB. Why STB makers don't treat Tivos interface and features as the minimum/starting point for their features I don't know. Tivo got it right VERY early on.

Tivo accepts 2 inputs: Analogue terrestrial (RF aerial) and (STB/AV) analogue via a scart socket. It has its own MPEG encoder (as well as decoder, of course). I have found the picture quality indistinguishable from "pure" digital recorders. It also means that anything recorded can be played back at any time. eg If the source was a Sky digibox Sky movie, it can be played back at anytime cf Sky+ will only play back an encrypted recording if you have a valid Sky card AT THE TIME OF PLAYBACK!....They don't tell you that when you're considering Sky+ !!!

Tivo UK have about 30,000 UK subscribers which must be a nice little earner that requires little support even if it has little expansion potential. The UK Tivo is a customised version. The manufacturer, Thom(p?)son stopped making them under license in order to make their own competing STBs. Tivo UK only made a modest (£10?) royalty on each box; their business was subscription...they needed a box maker to make the hardware from them.

There is a fairly active UK forum.

EPG info has been made available via internet by means of an add-on board called Tivoweb I think.....not sure since I didn't need it (having a legit subscription).

As you may gather I am a bit of a fan!!
 
Can't blame you for that I had one for 4-5 years and loved it untill the HD failed and knowing less than nothing about linux never got it fixed, instead got MCE which is a bit of a rip off of Tivo, the only thing it does not have is suggestions, but it more than makes up for that with its other features.

If anyone has linux skills and is interested in a Life time subbed Tivo with a dead HD and no remote let me know.
 
Gents - those were great Answers - much obliged. I am amazed they have been DOA for 6 years. I didn't even notice it when I was n tivo.co.uk earlier that the BUY option was not there (when the us site has one) :THANKS:
 
Gents - those were great Answers - much obliged. I am amazed they have been DOA for 6 years. I didn't even notice it when I was n tivo.co.uk earlier that the BUY option was not there (when the us site has one) :THANKS:

MCE does everything that Tivo does (bar suggestions) and more. If you have an old PC lying about you may wish to look at that option
 
In Defence of Tivo.....

Of course I'm biased in favour of Tivo but my experiences of MCE have not been too encouraging. I can't seem to get it to update channel EPG info correctly. Having said that, it may have more to do with the Hauppauge USB TV adapter. Originally they said it was compatible with MCE and now they don't say it's "fully" compliant. It works with MCE but the update feature for the EPG just doesn't seem to work properly. Perhaps I should be complaining to Hauppauge rather than (about) MCE.

Of course MCE does things that Tivo doesn't do and a "media centre" PC is in my view the way to go. However, there are features that I just love from Tivo:

1. Automatic series recording
2. Wishlists which allow automatic recording of programmes that have a specified title, director, artist etc
3. The fast forward (3 speeds available) overshoots the point you are aiming for (eg end of adverts) but then "rewinds" by just the right amount so you don't miss the restart of the programme. Magic!
4. Hitting the record button at ANY point during a programme means the whole programme (from the start) is recorded. Great feature when you start watching a programme but are not sure whether you want to watch/record it.
5. Being able to upgrade the hard drive
6. Not having to pay monthly subscriptions
7 The ease of deleting a programme after you have watched the recording. Most of the time after a single watch I want to delete it,Tivo requires 2 button presses (one is a safety confirmation). My Humax 9200T requires SIX button presses to achieve the same result for such a routine activity!!

As said earlier, I think Media centre PCs are the future but my (beloved) Tivo was designed about 8 years ago in US (where the system is still going strong).

I continue to be amazed at how poor the user experience can be with other PVRs (Not a dig at MCE) given that the starting point for ease of use could/should be Tivo. Surely if you were designing the user experience you would study Tivo (and Sky+) etc and produce something better. I just love the interface.

Although I have a satellite PVR (EchoStar) it is dreadful in comparison.

I know it's a case of horses for courses and maybe I'll have a better experience with MCE when I get a (permanently) compliant MCE TV receiver.

God this all sounds very defensive (particularly seeing as this is a Dreambox forum). It wasn't meant to be. Long live variety and choice!

I think my next project (which would have been a Dreambox 8000 had it ever threatened to surface), will probably be a Linux-based Media centre PC...when the user facilities exceed Tivo AND MCE!!

Cheers for now

ps are there any tricks to getting MCE EPG update to work for all channels?
 
Re Faulty Tivo

Hi JonMMM,

People should be biting your hand off to buy the Tivo, even with a faulty Hard drive. I would be if I didn't already have one. There is good forum support for UK Tivo repairs/upgrades.

In your shoes I would give it ba shot on EBay. You may be pleasantly surprised at the offers.

I do agree with you about Tivo being pretty useless without the EPG. Changing channels and setting up recordings from the on-screenEPG are/were pivitol.

Cheers
 
Gary, try MCE with a dreambox or 2, I think that you will be pleasently supprised 1-7 are all there baring the over shots on 3.

Keep on meaning to put it on ebay but never get round to it
 
JonMMM I would be interested in that tivo of yours I have a tivo with a 250gb drive and it is networked but still have to pay 10 squid a month whic drives me mad if we can come to some arrangement I could swap the drive and other stuff from my box to yours and awaty you go one subbed box PM me if your interested in sorting out a deal on it cheers bonesy. ps GTG thanks for the info have still not got my head arond the dreambox yet have flashed an image to it and got some channels but they seam all mixed up and i have got very few movis channels. I am going to try another image but I have a weak signal where I am so need to get a booster and also got to go get a null modem cable but will keep you all up to date on how I get on many thanks Ian.: multi :
 
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