Sensible Topic Scottish Independence worth £500

I don't think £500 either way would make that much difference to the actual vote, because any figures given are completely hypothetical as nobody really knows for certain.
But, I do believe that Alex Salmond has presumed far too much about an Independent Scotland !!
He has presumed that Scotland can continue using the British Pound, using the British Vehicle Registration, MOT and Road Tax System (I know it's not road tax now, but you know what I mean), Using Funds from the NHS System, Using the Benefits System and having access to funds available from previous British Tax and National Insurance input, and what about the Passport System or the Postal Service ?
He has presumed that Oil Production becomes Scotland's and that it has an unlimited lifetime, he has presumed that all Major Companies will remain in Scotland.
Then there are the things that appear to have not been properly considered, such as having and/or funding Independent Scottish Armed Forces, TV licences, proper Border Control, where does it leave "ex pat" Scots ?
Then of course if Independence is achieved but a couple of years down the road the electorate believe it isn't working, it won't be a vote to return to Britain !!
It will be a question of will Britain allow Scotland to join.
There are far too many assumptions, too many what if's and too many don't knows.................................It really hasn't been properly thought out.
I live in England, I am a Scot and proud of it, but I am also British and proud of it !!
If Scotland gains Independence technically they will not be part of the EU and I and many others will technically be Illegal Immigrants !
Even if that is not considered to be the case I will be a Displaced Person, because I will no longer be British but I will not have a Scottish Passport.
Bugger !!! I'm going to be less popular than a Romanian Gypsy ! (What do you mean I already am ?)
 
There's also the further education funding shortfall, among other things.

There's no way they call fully estimate all the costs involved or the knock on effects of everything that's required to split fully - then expect to be propped up by Westminster for some stuff. It's like "we want to go but we still want the best bits you offer"

We're so much better together and I hope people see thru his nationalist rhetoric. It's not Scotland can't survive independent, we work better as one.

I'm part Scottish, love my heritage both Scottish and English but class myself as British and proud
 
No it'll come down to who has the better economic outlook that wins it.

Also sorry to tell you but both of you are talking shite.

Scotland already funds further eduction, NHS and Transport Scotland from its own budget its self. Infact the NHS is more likey to stay in public hands than be sold off if we get independence.

There would be some setup costs but if you look at the research - cant say im suprised you havent her of it thanks to our meida - its not as much as you'd expect.

Keep your pound, and the trillion pound of debt. We dont want it.
 
if scotland goes it alone you will be bankrupt within a decade better off sticking in the Union and being a bigger fish than being a small minnow
 
I think Salmond is just on some ego trip. He want's to go down in history as the man who got Scottish independence, whether it be for better or for worse. lol
 
No it'll come down to who has the better economic outlook that wins it.

Also sorry to tell you but both of you are talking shite.

Scottish economics? Which two of three?

Keep your pound, and the trillion pound of debt. We dont want it.

You'll get a proportion anyway and you'll get the pound too. Launching a new currency would be political suicide for Scotland.
 
if scotland goes it alone you will be bankrupt within a decade better off sticking in the Union and being a bigger fish than being a small minnow

Aye because the unions 1.5 trillion pound of debts worked out great eh. :rolleyes:. I think you should go and read the GERS report before you badger on about how much we cost you English - Pathetic that you still think this.

'Trillion pounds of oil remains' | Herald Scotland

Backruped? Aye Good one.

I think Salmond is just on some ego trip. He want's to go down in history as the man who got Scottish independence, whether it be for better or for worse. lol

Possiabley - Whos to say he'll be the first scottish PM though? Independance and switch your vote to SSP. Try and bring back some rich and poor balance imo.

Scottish economics? Which two of three?



You'll get a proportion anyway and you'll get the pound too. Launching a new currency would be political suicide for Scotland.

You don't read the press much do you?

UK backs Scottish debts:
Scottish independence: UK debt to be guaranteed - The Scotsman


We want a currency union, you want us to help pay of the debt - theirs a basis for a deal right there - and forget whats been said - it comes down to negations. Also if you had bothered to read the press you would know that a treasurey member came out and said the chancellors statement was bollocks.
 
You don't read the press much do you?

UK backs Scottish debts:
Scottish independence: UK debt to be guaranteed - The Scotsman


We want a currency union, you want us to help pay of the debt - theirs a basis for a deal right there - and forget whats been said - it comes down to negations. Also if you had bothered to read the press you would know that a treasurey member came out and said the chancellors statement was bollocks.

The Chancellor moved to calm the market. Negotiations take place AFTER the vote. Currency union is complete bollocks and a total smokescreen. Scotland could adopt the pound if it wanted to irrespective of ANYTHING Whitehall may say.

Most people have no idea of the difference between 'adopting' a currency and a 'currency union' in any case. Scotland could adopt the Dollar, or the Euro, or any other currency for that matter. Using is NOT the same as 'union'.

The Scottish people really do need to task the likes of Alex Salmond with some serious questions. So far the proposals look great on paper but don't stand up to inspection. Blindly diving in because you want it doesn't make the deal a good idea.

I'll wager if you get a 'yes' vote you'll get shafted by your own politicians much the same as the rest of us have for God knows how many decades.

On balance, I hope it goes to a 'yes' because that would mean MORE of the electorate kicking up about tosser politicians.

Call me cynical but tell me I was wrong in 2015...
 
The Chancellor moved to calm the market. Negotiations take place AFTER the vote. Currency union is complete bollocks and a total smokescreen. Scotland could adopt the pound if it wanted to irrespective of ANYTHING Whitehall may say.

Most people have no idea of the difference between 'adopting' a currency and a 'currency union' in any case. Scotland could adopt the Dollar, or the Euro, or any other currency for that matter. Using is NOT the same as 'union'.

The Scottish people really do need to task the likes of Alex Salmond with some serious questions. So far the proposals look great on paper but don't stand up to inspection. Blindly diving in because you want it doesn't make the deal a good idea.

I'll wager if you get a 'yes' vote you'll get shafted by your own politicians much the same as the rest of us have for God knows how many decades.

On balance, I hope it goes to a 'yes' because that would mean MORE of the electorate kicking up about tosser politicians.

Call me cynical but tell me I was wrong in 2015...

Pretty Much correct. Nice to see that you actually know something. The currenty union is not bollocks, its there to protect the value of the pound as much as we also have a right to use it. I'd like to see the value for the current if Scotland adopted to use something else.

Alex salmon has done a fairly good job leading the country the last two parliaments. Everyone that's voted for him knew he wanted independence, I'm sure he'll do a decent job leading us though that too.

If they do stuff us come 2016 (Because 2016 would be the first Scottish Indy general election) then at least then we have the power to vote them out - where as we can do shit all about the Tories getting in.
 
I should have been clearer. A currency union is an added complication that is not necessary for an independent Scotland. The pound is mainly driven by global events and in or out of a union makes little difference to Scotland as they could continue to use the pound in any case.

By 2015 I simply meant it wouldn't take long for any cracks to show, elections didn't really figure in my thoughts.
 
Aye because the unions 1.5 trillion pound of debts worked out great eh. :rolleyes:. I think you should go and read the GERS report before you badger on about how much we cost you English - Pathetic that you still think this.

'Trillion pounds of oil remains' | Herald Scotland

Backruped? Aye Good one.

yep in fact a great one. you will become bankrupt as the union will keep scotlands only natural asset north sea oil , you can quote all the reports you like the UK government will not let NSO go no matter what anyone says right now , wars are fought over oil , just look at Iraq all the bullshit over weapons of mass destruction when in fact all it boiled down to was oil.

As I stated I stand by my first statement you are nothing without the Union sorry scots lads but you aint if you go independent good luck to you , however you will have to eventually get your own currency and find your own econmic growth , the EU dont want an independant scotland and any entry into the EU will be thwarted as its not sustainable for the EU to have another country in it that could/would go bankrupt eurozone or not. You also must find your own head of state in my opion as the Queen should not be the head of state for scotland if you go independant . Im sure though Alexander Salmond will look real handsome on your banknotes NOT!!

If you stay in the Union great because the Union is better with Scotland in it this is a fact and I for one will be relieved that the scots remain with us, at least that way we are a stronger nation on the world and European stage , if the scots go it alone you are nothing on the world and european stage just a small insignificant country like say bosnia or something. Im Scouse and my heroes are all scots and I for one dont want to see an indepandant scotland thats my opion on it case closed.
 
yep in fact a great one. you will become bankrupt as the union will keep scotlands only natural asset north sea oil , you can quote all the reports you like the UK government will not let NSO go no matter what anyone says right now , wars are fought over oil , just look at Iraq all the bullshit over weapons of mass destruction when in fact all it boiled down to was oil.

As I stated I stand by my first statement you are nothing without the Union sorry scots lads but you aint if you go independent good luck to you , however you will have to eventually get your own currency and find your own econmic growth , the EU dont want an independant scotland and any entry into the EU will be thwarted as its not sustainable for the EU to have another country in it that could/would go bankrupt eurozone or not. You also must find your own head of state in my opion as the Queen should not be the head of state for scotland if you go independant . Im sure though Alexander Salmond will look real handsome on your banknotes NOT!!

If you stay in the Union great because the Union is better with Scotland in it this is a fact and I for one will be relieved that the scots remain with us, at least that way we are a stronger nation on the world and European stage , if the scots go it alone you are nothing on the world and european stage just a small insignificant country like say bosnia or something. Im Scouse and my heroes are all scots and I for one dont want to see an indepandant scotland thats my opion on it case closed.

hahaha. So international LAW meaning nothing then eh?

You need to go and so some reading. Also FYI scotland has 40% of the renewable energy (Wind and tidel) and you say Oil is our ownly natural asset?

Funny how you mention that we'd not get in the EU when infact Scottish goverment have said we would join the EU. Remind me when the EU In/Out UK Referendum is again?

Joe.
 
Wake up and smell the bullshit lol

Now, @prag as @Joe1989 suggests, you do really need to get your head around some facts. I suspect the only reason oil is ever mentioned in this debate is that the masses understand it. In terms of the Scottish economy it's not really a big deal. Truth be told, Scotland is pretty rich without oil. Alternative energy sources extend beyond wind and tide.

Not that I'm suggesting @Joe1989 is 100% right on this, nor am I 100% convinced about Scottish independence. The best I would hope for is better devolution of power throughout the UK.

As for the currency thing, it's a non-argument, so is the Queen.

EU membership? The only reason the EU would argue is Scottish independence would give power to ETA, the Basques and the Catalans which they could really do without right now. In or out of the EU has sod all to do with Scottish independence.

What just MIGHT be worthy of consideration is could the union work better to the advantage of everyone in it?

After all, the Scots might not be so p*ssed off if they felt they had a fairer deal?
 
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@Joe1989 you said "Funny how you mention that we'd not get in the EU when infact Scottish goverment have said we would join the EU."
It is Not the Scottish Government who will decide if Scotland could join the EU !
It doesn't matter what the Scottish Government says, and that appears to be yet another assumption by Alex Salmond, he has made far too many assumptions and then quotes them as fact, his dreams and visions are based on a very weak foundation.
Take this anology.................You have just divorced your wife, do you think she will just let you have the house and the car, and also help pay the bills for the day to day running of the household ?
Do you think you will automatically get the children ?
Do you think that all the friends that you had as a couple will still want to be friends with you ?
Do you think you will still be able to aquire the same credit that is afforded you by the combined income as when you were married ?
Do you think you will be treated the same as a Divorcee as you would be as a Married Couple ?
Because as it stands Alex Salmond expects the answer to all those questions to be Yes........................But then comes the reality !!!

What is really needed is as Him Her has stated "What just MIGHT be worthy of consideration is could the union work better to the advantage of everyone in it?"
Scotland has every right to be peed of by the way they are treated by Parliament, but they are not the only ones because up until now the Government have not been able to see beyond the City of London, but the European Elections have given them a wake up call, and with Scotland as part of the Union that wake up call can be continued.
 
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@Joe1989 you said "Funny how you mention that we'd not get in the EU when infact Scottish goverment have said we would join the EU."
It is Not the Scottish Government who will decide if Scotland could join the EU !
It doesn't matter what the Scottish Government says, and that appears to be yet another assumption by Alex Salmond, he has made far too many assumptions and then quotes them as fact, his dreams and visions are based on a very weak foundation.
Take this anology.................You have just divorced your wife, do you think she will just let you have the house and the car, and also help pay the bills for the day to day running of the household ?
Do you think you will automatically get the children ?
Do you think that all the friends that you had as a couple will still want to be friends with you ?
Do you think you will still be able to aquire the same credit that is afforded you by the combined income as when you were married ?
Do you think you will be treated the same as a Divorcee as you would be as a Married Couple ?
Because as it stands Alex Salmond expects the answer to all those questions to be Yes........................But then comes the reality !!!

What is really needed is as Him Her has stated "What just MIGHT be worthy of consideration is could the union work better to the advantage of everyone in it?"
Scotland has every right to be peed of by the way they are treated by Parliament, but they are not the only ones because up until now the Government have not been able to see beyond the City of London, but the European Elections have given them a wake up call, and with Scotland as part of the Union that wake up call can be continued.

Hi,

Please have a read here:

Will Scotland be in the European Union? | Yes Scotland

There is no discussion if Scotland will get into the EU. We currently and would independently fit all the criteria to get into it.

The difference is the opinion of how quickly membership should be agreed. I tend to believe a number of EU experts than rubbish from darling.

If its a no vote in September do you think Westminster will give a flying **** about Scotland? They'll continue to focus on the city of London and we will need to face about 5 years of public service cuts and welfare cuts, and we'll get no extra powers.

You cannot compare a marriage divorce to a political union being broken up, if you want to come up with some valid reasons for why you'd would vote no feel free to suggest them.

P.s. Your right about one thing, Scotland would get better credit rating as an independent country.

Independent Scotland could be AAA rated ? Standard & Poors : Business for Scotland

As you quite rightly point out, everything ends up as a big discussion to see who gets what - Does mean we wont do well out it though does it? Lets face it, SNP have done a good job given the limited powers they hold.

Public Held NHS,
No 9000 pound student fees
100% Renewable by 2020 - On target

Whats London done again? Oh aye 1.5tb of debt, and its going up. Why would we want to leave that.
 
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I have no arguement whatsoever that SNP has done some great things for Scotland, and the ideology that they have for the likes of Student Fees and their backing of the NHS desperately need to be adopted throughout the whole of Britain.
But I maintain that proper consideration of the affects of Independence have not been fully considered and too many assumptions have been made, the resulting arguements that will occur should Scotland gain Independence will do nothing but damage Scotland and what will be left of Britain. It will become like a schoolboy squabble with both sides not prepared to back down and each blaming the other, meanwhile outside corporations will plunder the resources available and then withdraw any support when they have had their fill and in the end neither Nation will gain any benefit from those resources.
There will be resentment from both sides and both sides will attempt to sabotage the other to achieve their goals or indeed to stop the other achieving their aim and as usual the ones who will suffer will be the ordinary guy on the street, because they will be the ones paying for this fueding and suffering the affects of the fueds.
I would rather have a stronger Union where Scotland can voice their opinion and be able to say we have done this and it works better than that and so should be the model standard.
As I stated before the UK government appear to be only interested in the City of London and appear to assume that everywhere else enjoys the same conditions, so it is not just Scotland who are affected by the current system, so perhaps the likes of SNP would be better advised in seeking to achieve true proportional representation within a UK government.
 
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