Sensible Topic Not All Muslims are Extremists !!

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D 8 RCS

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In a thread on the Main Site News section about Islamic Take Over of State Schools, I posted about a Muslim neighbour ::

"I have a Muslim gentleman who lives 2 door down from me, he is well educated and very intelligent and speaks several languages, he was recently made redundant and was approached to teach in a local school, but was told that he must wear the Chamis (the Muslim Robes). He refused the job, only on the grounds of wearing the Chamis as a requirement.
He is proud of his Pakistani roots and his religion and considerers himself a devout Muslim, but he believes in proper integration and openly complains of the growth of extremist Islamists.
I may come across as anti-immigration and I have had some people insinuate that I am Racist, but this gentleman is a shining example of the type of migrant that is acceptable to any country across the world and to me he and his family are the sort of people that I would prefer to associate with and socialise with than with any person defined by their place of birth."

I would like to post another note about this gentleman and his good lady; there is a small church opposite the green outside where I live and on Friday the congregation held an open-air Easter service on the green and amongst those attending were the Muslim couple from 2 doors down. It showed to me what real integration and acceptance is about, he and his wife were showing a great respect to the local Christian church goers by being there and in my mind it is acts like this that will make people feel more at easy about the feelings of many of the ordinary Muslim families living here.
I just wanted to express my respect to him and his wife and to all the others like him.
 
Ill take a quote from the late great Winston Churchill

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion
paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde
force exists in the world.
Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant
and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising
fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the
strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled,
the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
 
Two other quotes attributed to Churchill

Churchill also said , in 1937, the Jews invited persecution because "The central fact which dominates the relations of Jew and non-Jew is that the Jew is 'different'. He looks different. He thinks differently. He has a different tradition and background. He refuses to be absorbed."

And on Indians
* I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.
o Letter to Leo Amery, Secretary of State for India from work by Prof Vinay Lal of UCLA [1]
* Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues and freebooters. All Indian leaders will be of low calibre and men of straw.
o On the eve of Indian Independence in 1947

So not exactly a great person to be quoting,apart from the fact it has nothing to do with the tone or intent of the OP
 
Does he observe Sunnah?

Does he believe his wife is worth half of him?
 
So not exactly a great person to be quoting,apart from the fact it has nothing to do with the tone or intent of the OP

Indeed. Depends on your agenda I suppose. :(

Not a great person? One of the greatest my friend.

And it has everything to do with OP, he is saying this Muslim gentleman is fantastic. I am saying what what WC stated.

And as spectre says ask a few questions and see the answers, no mater how great they are you wont like the answer.

Ask the guy what he does he believe in the Islamic caliphate, what his is views on homosexuality and so on..........
 
Not a great person? One of the greatest my friend.

Why? because you were told so as you were growing up!

And it has everything to do with OP, he is saying this Muslim gentleman is fantastic. I am saying what what WC stated.

Exactly,you are talking about nothing relating to the OP,he never mentioned Churchill

And as spectre says ask a few questions and see the answers, no mater how great they are you wont like the answer.

Ask the guy what he does he believe in the Islamic caliphate, what his is views on homosexuality and so on..........

His views are his views and not relevant to this thread,he was being a good member of the community and was being commended on it,nothing more nothing less

Because I'm Irish and catholic does that make me a supporter of the IRA,or a radical member even?

I'm not disagreeing about your views on radical extremists,just your input on this thread :)
 
Why? because you were told so as you were growing up!

Nope, i was taught nothing about Churchill or recent British history. Pretty much like everyone who goes to state schools in the UK.

Exactly,you are talking about nothing relating to the OP,he never mentioned Churchill

So what if he did or didn't, i am using Churchill's quote to say what i think on the OP's message!! As i couldn't have said it better myself..... Is that ok or am i not allowed to use someones quote to express what i believe?

His views are his views and not relevant to this thread,he was being a good member of the community and was being commended on it,nothing more nothing less

Because I'm Irish and catholic does that make me a supporter of the IRA,or a radical member even?

I'm not disagreeing about your views on radical extremists,just your input on this thread :)

His views are influenced/dictated by his religion.

You may or may not support the IRA, you may or may not believe in the reunification of Ireland. If you did then you might not believe in the methods used be the IRA but you still believe/share in the end goal.

I know its a bit off topic but its the same in this situation, many Muslims don't agree with terrorism but they still share the same end goal, and when you look at that end goal its all the same whether they are bombing us now or forcing us all to convert or pay taxes when the caliphate is complete.

Go ask the Christians in Islamic country's what that's like, if you can find any still alive.
 
Nope, i was taught nothing about Churchill or recent British history. Pretty much like everyone who goes to state schools in the UK.



So what if he did or didn't, i am using Churchill's quote to say what i think on the OP's message!! As i couldn't have said it better myself..... Is that ok or am i not allowed to use someones quote to express what i believe?



His views are influenced/dictated by his religion.

You may or may not support the IRA, you may or may not believe in the reunification of Ireland. If you did then you might not believe in the methods used be the IRA but you still believe/share in the end goal.

I know its a bit off topic but its the same in this situation, many Muslims don't agree with terrorism but they still share the same end goal, and when you look at that end goal its all the same whether they are bombing us now or forcing us all to convert or pay taxes when the caliphate is complete.

Go ask the Christians in Islamic country's what that's like, if you can find any still alive.

This could go on and on so I will bow out now m8

Sorry to @D 8 RCS for my part in taking this off thread topic, I fully understood your post and thanks for sharing it :)
 
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Not a great person? One of the greatest my friend.

And it has everything to do with OP, he is saying this Muslim gentleman is fantastic. I am saying what what WC stated.

And as spectre says ask a few questions and see the answers, no mater how great they are you wont like the answer.

Ask the guy what he does he believe in the Islamic caliphate, what his is views on homosexuality and so on..........

I thought that this was the sensible chat forum? This sort of off-topic rambling is anything but.
 
Not a great person? One of the greatest my friend.

And it has everything to do with OP, he is saying this Muslim gentleman is fantastic. I am saying what what WC stated.

And as spectre says ask a few questions and see the answers, no mater how great they are you wont like the answer.

Ask the guy what he does he believe in the Islamic caliphate, what his is views on homosexuality and so on..........

From my limited knowledge of Islam, to answer @Spectre, I would suspect that he does observe Sunnah because as I understand it Sunnah means usual practice or normal flow, so that would mean he should involve his religion within his whole lifestyle. As for believing his wife is worth half of him, I have no idea and can only judge on the way I have seen him treat her and to me it appears to be with complete respect.
Belief in the Islamic Caliphate, caliphate is succession or a successer, and I know there is a quotation in the Quran about Islam being the Caliphate after suffering violent oppression and an age of tyrannical rule, which to me sounds very like the Biblical passage of Matthew 5.5 about "Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit the Earth".
As for his views on homosexuality, that is something that you can find extreme views about from anyone of any religion and any walk of life.
With any writings and adherence to any religion it is all about how each person interprets it, and with all religions you can find extremist slants to almost every verse and chapter if you so wish to put that arguement forward.


Do I think there are too many "foreigners" in Britain ? .......................... Yes !!
Do I think something needs to be done about it ? ............................... Yes !!
Do I think that those "migrants" here should integrate ? ...................... Yes !!
Do I think there is anything to worry about ? ..................................... Yes !!
Do I think something should be done about Extremists ? ..................... Yes !!


Do I think I am Racist ? .................................................................... No !!
Do I think "migrants" should forget their roots and religion ? ................. No !!
Do I think Islam is dangerous ? ......................................................... No !!

The real danger is Extremism !!!! and that danger can come from any and ever Race, Creed, Religion and Walk of Life.
Because there is something that you don't like, doesn't mean it needs to be eradicated. However, that does not mean that something should be given "free rein" either, like most things in life there is a middle road and that is the raod that everyone should be able to walk safely.
There isn't "One Just Way".
 
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As for his views on homosexuality, that is something that you can find extreme views about from anyone of any religion and any walk of life.

The real danger is Extremism !!!! and that danger can come from any and ever Race, Creed, Religion and Walk of Life.

There is s problem with your theory tho.

Any one individual can be extreme and push their beliefs on to people or maybe want to throw homosexuals off a cliff, but its a religion that dictates it, why is there no Christians in Islamic country's? because Islam dictates it. Why are women treated as second class citizens? because Islam dictates it. Why is the world gripped by Islamic terrorism? because you guessed it Islam dictates it.

We ourselves are gripped by Islamist plots either to blow us up, infiltrate our schools, rip off charity's, influence our laws or is that have their own separate laws, and the more dhimmis we have the worse off we will be.
 
There is s problem with your theory tho.

Any one individual can be extreme and push their beliefs on to people or maybe want to throw homosexuals off a cliff, but its a religion that dictates it, why is there no Christians in Islamic country's? because Islam dictates it. Why are women treated as second class citizens? because Islam dictates it. Why is the world gripped by Islamic terrorism? because you guessed it Islam dictates it.

We ourselves are gripped by Islamist plots either to blow us up, infiltrate our schools, rip off charity's, influence our laws or is that have their own separate laws, and the more dhimmis we have the worse off we will be.


Eon, you are obviously an intelligent person because you have taken on board the information that you post and you have an understanding and knowledge of some words that I knew nothing of and had to look up, but you have allowed yourself to become tunnel visioned on your quest to extol the evil side of Islam.
There is no doubt there are some Muslims out there who are dangerous and vile, but it is not a religion that dictates that and you ask why there are no Christians in Muslim countries but there are !
Many attrocities have been committed in the name of Religion and no doubt many more will occur, but if you go deeply into many if not most examples you will find that the real motivation is not Religion but Power, Money and Ego !!
Take the likes of Abu Hamza, if his ranting and vile hatred was only about Religion, then surely he would have been one of the first in line to achieve martyrdom and his reward of 72 Virgins ? No, he is only interested in Power, Ego and Money !!!!!
You mentioned the IRA to Wiz569, again an organisation that hid behind the cloak of Religion and purported to be for the Catholic people, just as opposing organisations such as the UDA professed allegiance to the Protestant population.....................to those who ran Brigades and Battalions it was about Power, Ego and Money.
Dhimmis, a word I must admit I had never heard of and the meaning that I read was "A historical term referring to non-Muslim citizens of an Islamic state. Dhimma allows Rights of Residence in return for jizyah (tax collected from non-muslims).
According to scholars, dhimmis had their rights fully protected in their communities, but as citizens in the Islamic state, had certain restrictions. They were excused or excluded from specific duties assigned to Muslims, did not enjoy certain political rights reserved to Muslims, and were subject to payment of a special tax (jizyah), but were otherwise equal under the laws of property, contract and obligation.
As a Scottish Presbyterian which was/is considered a staunch Protestant Religion, I as a youngster witnessed and was also told of this exact same thing occurring in Glasgow particularly in the Shipyards and was informed that it was even more widespread in Northern Ireland...........................Only it wasn't Christians or Dhimmis discriminated against in that way it was the Catholics. So this sort of thing is nothing new.
Northern Ireland and Scotland have moved on from this, does it still occur ? Yes in some cases but it also happens in reverse. However the majority of people just get on with their lives as people, but that does not mean they have discarded their Religion, but it shows that the majority do not want to live by extremes, because despite what side of the fence you are on, extremism only brings sorrow and trouble to the majority.
And you will see from the description of Dhimmas that they were/are restricted and taxed...................Power and Money !!!!
Religion is just a cloak of disguise for some who wish to gain Power, Money and Ego.
 
but you have allowed yourself to become tunnel visioned on your quest to extol the evil side of Islam.

You are probably right m8, and arguing on here about it will not solve a thing. I bow out........... for now lol
 
These threads always seem to get bogged down in the minutia of one religion or another. Whatever the original intent of religion was, they've all been corrupted
by vested interests, and are just used to manipulate people incapable of independent thought. My notional religion is irrelevant to me, as is any other religion.
We've had the traditional Easter offerings from religion leaders in their particular "uniform". Same content as usual, the result will be the same as usual.

A personal belief in your religion is fine, believe the moon is made of cotton wool for all I care, but blowing people up in the name of it is another matter.
That aside, forget ideology, politics, conflicting statistics, and commercially associated BS. Mark one eyeball still works, just look around any urban area,
spreading in all directions. Do you find it enlightening, encouraging, or "vibrant", the current weasel word? Are Germany, Norway, Switzerland, or Belgium,
vibrant? All have large immigrant populations, Germany the richest, with the most space, yet some discontent there as well.

We have too many people here already, not enough space for extra housing unless you build on land needed to grow food, and creaking infrastructure.
Not enough productive jobs, without permission from you know where. That's just a few of the handicaps you don't need when heading towards a world
with depleted resources. Most immigration is because of over population, religion dominated politics, and bad management in the originating countries,
leading to factional wars, and poor living conditions. Our interference may have been a factor in the past, but we're not to blame forever.
It's time for us to learn from their mistakes, not perpetuate it here, which seems the likely result.

We simply don't need any more people, irrespective of colour, race, personal religion, or country of origin. It's about overall body count, timing, and distribution.
That probably makes me some variety of "deviant". I'll have to stagger along somehow. Fortunately, I don't care much about labels, designer or otherwise. :)
 
i normally try to keep out of threads like this as i cant b arsed talking / discussing with people who even if u point a fact / truth in front of them they will still make a excuse / explanation .etc to get their view across or dodge the question altogether.......... reminds me of the scum mp's!!

well i got a few questions for some members that keep bashing islam / muslims

Q1 in the uk when did women get equal rights?
Q2 how were women treated before their equal rights??
Q3 in the bible is it a sin to be gay??
Q4 what were the crusades about?
Q5 in islam what rights are given to women?
Q6 how old of a religion is islam?
Q7 in the bible what are womens rights?
Q8 how old of a religion is christianity??

now before any1 attempts to answer these please do some hard research and when u answer provide proof e.g. webpage .etc
and try to answer with a open mind

now there are quite abit of muslims in the uk army....... would u class them as modrates or extremists??

have a think ...... every few years the newspapers and politicians bash a minority / religion / sect .etc and what is the end result?
it cause disharmony and untrust between friends and people and then u get the radicals who have a easy job picking up which person is vunrable ....etc

u get the picture??

my 2pence worth ;)
 
Everyone has their opinion on Religion... this thread has turned almost into to a 'black and white' Religion discussion rather than someone highlighting that not everyone, of whatever faith, are more than happy to embrace their neighbours culture/beliefs. Turning this thread into a religious debate means I've no other option than to close this.

Regards,

snapman
 
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