Sensible Topic Benefit caps

It's the usual overkill with the emotive phrases of "hitting the shirkers" and "those who don't want to work" to make it a populist action, with no action to the root cause of the excessive pay outs, which are inavariably for housing benefit to cover rent, particularly in London.
I would agree with a cap for someone trying to claim hug rents in London and the likes if the claimant had not been living in that area for at least 5 years, I would also agree more if they tried to cap the rental prices.
Another area that I could also appreciate capping benefits for would be large and/or increasing size families of long term claimants and possibly on "new" single parents as a way of discouraging some of the youngster who become pregnant to claim "extras" and to move up the housing waiting list. But, this would need to be done on a scaled in basis because it would not be right to punish the existing young kids whose parent or parents are on benefits already.
Most of the recent benefit changes have been ill thought out and implemented in a rush and so are proving to be big failures and resulting in many innocent people suffering and in the long term costing much more than they are saving.
 
Accepting that some people get caught in the crossfire, what would you do? Forget the politics for a moment and assume that a £1.5 Trillion UK debt is actually not a problem. How would you distribute the money we don't actually have?
 
Accepting that some people get caught in the crossfire, what would you do? Forget the politics for a moment and assume that a £1.5 Trillion UK debt is actually not a problem. How would you distribute the money we don't actually have?
But we're going backwards more slowly now, so the debt goes back under the carpet. Until the bailiffs start knocking again.
 
As I said I would look at some sort of capping system but not a one hat fits all lazy man's solution. And rather than target the Sick and Disabled on a full scale level I would have surveillance teams watching Disabled Bays at supermarket, shopping centres etc, this would have the affect of catching those who are more able bodied than stated and those that abuse the Blue Badge Scheme.
I would also have teams concentrating on long term Unemployed on JSA to check if it was a case of idleness or people requiring help with job seeking and/or interviewing skills.
It would also be a good idea to stop using Private Sector companies for assessments and would integrate that step into the civil service units, which would stop doubling up of work and could personalise the system more, because assesments done by ATOS and the like are tick box checking to just pass back an assessment to a faceless Decision Maker who has only a paper report to act on, when the Decision Maker should ideally have seen the claimant and so be more able and informed to make the decision.
Child Benefit needs revamping and should be a means tested (by means tested I mean Income Related) benefit and should only be applied for a maximum of 3 children.
Winter Payments/Cold Weather Payments and Christmas Bonuses should all be means tested Benefits only.
More Government/Council owned Social Housing would enable Housing Benefit to be reduced by not paying exhorbitant rents to private landlords and this would also enable better regulation on new claimants/renters who have rented in specific areas to suit theirselves rather than suiting their situation.
Then there are the caps that should have always been in place !! Eligibility !!! And this should apply to any and all Benefits.
Which in my mind should be ::
1) Must have been a UK resident for a minimum of 5 years.
2) Must have worked and paid tax and national insurance for at least 2 years.
3) Must be able to read, write and speak English. (Those who speak English but cannot read or write would be given courses to help).
 
"It's the usual overkill with the emotive phrases of "hitting the shirkers" and "those who don't want to work" to make it a populist action."

"Most of the recent benefit changes have been ill thought out and implemented in a rush and so are proving to be big failures and resulting in many innocent people suffering and in the long term costing much more than they are saving."

The Latest example of this is the "Help To Work" programme that fully launches in 2 weeks time at a cost of £300 Million a year, despite having been trial by the DWP on 15,000 Long Term Unemployed JSA claimants and having been found to be little more than useless !!

Help to Work is a costly way of punishing the jobless | Polly Toynbee | Comment is free | The Guardian
 
The Latest example of this is the "Help To Work" programme that fully launches in 2 weeks time at a cost of £300 Million a year, despite having been trial by the DWP on 15,000 Long Term Unemployed JSA claimants and having been found to be little more than useless !!

Help to Work is a costly way of punishing the jobless | Polly Toynbee | Comment is free | The Guardian

The trouble with this sort of thing is the election run up. One side comes up with it to gain advantage, the other side responds with something similar.
Whoever wins is committed to a plan which they both knew was useless to start off with. They may wriggle out of it, but the money's already wasted.

No sense, just life as we know it!
 
Unfortunately, the way I see it is either out of the EU or nail the benefits down to EU levels?
 
Cant believe they saying the council will give housing benefit upto 260 quid a week! thats rediculous.
There should be a cap of minimum wage equivalent.

Those on minimum wage and/or low wage are entitled to housing benefit, particularly if they live in London where the rents are much higher.

There is often the arguement given "if you can't afford the housing then don't live there" but if that were to happen who would fill all of the low paid jobs there ?
 
Those on minimum wage and/or low wage are entitled to housing benefit, particularly if they live in London where the rents are much higher.

There is often the arguement given "if you can't afford the housing then don't live there" but if that were to happen who would fill all of the low paid jobs there ?

I agree with this but what if you were born and bred in a London borough.

On my wage (working for Asda at the time) there was no way in earth I could afford to live in Dagenham. I lived with my mum. A And even then things were tight.

I moved to Hastings last year and on a lesser wage I now could afford to live comfortably in a one bed flat. I now work on busses so better off but even now. My flat is the same size as my sisters and pay 50% less in rent council tax and utilities then her.

The biggest problem we have is everything has inflated but the wages. And thus we rely more on tax relief and benifits.

In most cases you are better off claiming then working. And unfortunately it's become so bad that there isn't a way out other then making many people homeless or move them many miles away from where they know. Or work.
 
I agree with this but what if you were born and bred in a London borough.

On my wage (working for Asda at the time) there was no way in earth I could afford to live in Dagenham. I lived with my mum. A And even then things were tight.

I moved to Hastings last year and on a lesser wage I now could afford to live comfortably in a one bed flat. I now work on busses so better off but even now. My flat is the same size as my sisters and pay 50% less in rent council tax and utilities then her.

The biggest problem we have is everything has inflated but the wages. And thus we rely more on tax relief and benifits.

In most cases you are better off claiming then working. And unfortunately it's become so bad that there isn't a way out other then making many people homeless or move them many miles away from where they know. Or work.

Totally agree with you @neorage , I have friends in Barking (not far from Dagenham) whose kids all managed to get council properties quite a few years ago but their grandchildren have no option but to stay with their parents because they cannot afford to get anywhere of their own to live, so it will be those working class people whose families have lived in the area for generations that will have to move out of the area.
Yet, migrants who arrive in the area become the priority cases for housing because they are "homeless" despite the fact many have homes where they have come from and yet if you had lived in the area all of your life you have to prove that you have not made yourself "Intentionally Homeless" and they request all sorts of bank details and bank statements, which they obviously do not make any effort to do with the migrants.
And I don't care how many people think this is being racist, it is Not !!! it is Fact !!
I know, I have been through it !!!
 
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You shoud never bring standards down !!!
So only one solution !!!

I think my comment may have been misunderstood. What I meant was one of the fundamentals of EU membership is freedom of movement of its citizens. You can renegotiate the rules perhaps or leave if you don't like them. In the absence of either, benefits would have to reduce to match the stricter implementations abroad thus making the UK less attractive.

Housing costs, wages and inflation are different issues. Not that they're unimportant, it's just that membership of the EU is not really a contributory factor.
 
I think my comment may have been misunderstood. What I meant was one of the fundamentals of EU membership is freedom of movement of its citizens. You can renegotiate the rules perhaps or leave if you don't like them. In the absence of either, benefits would have to reduce to match the stricter implementations abroad thus making the UK less attractive.

Housing costs, wages and inflation are different issues. Not that they're unimportant, it's just that membership of the EU is not really a contributory factor.

But the EU is a major factor, because without membership to it we would not need to have freedom of movement to here from the rest of the EU.
Reducing benefits to the level of some of the other EU countries is not an option unless you also lower the whole cost of living and living standards to that of those countries and as I said "You should never bring standards down".
So why not rule that those other countries have to pay similar benefit to the likes of Britain and Germany ? ............................. Raise the bar not lower it !
British and German Trade Unions fought hard to achieve a lot of the benefits in place and to get the working man a "Living Wage" that "Living Wage" has been eroded and Cheap Labour is becoming the norm, we are spiralling downwards towards becoming serfs and slaves, if something is not done the ordinary person in Britain will be working in the kind of conditions and for the same sort of wages as in India and Pakistan. It honestly feels like we are striving to become a third world country.
 
But the EU is a major factor, because without membership to it we would not need to have freedom of movement to here from the rest of the EU.
Reducing benefits to the level of some of the other EU countries is not an option unless you also lower the whole cost of living and living standards to that of those countries and as I said "You should never bring standards down".
So why not rule that those other countries have to pay similar benefit to the likes of Britain and Germany ? ............................. Raise the bar not lower it !
British and German Trade Unions fought hard to achieve a lot of the benefits in place and to get the working man a "Living Wage" that "Living Wage" has been eroded and Cheap Labour is becoming the norm, we are spiralling downwards towards becoming serfs and slaves, if something is not done the ordinary person in Britain will be working in the kind of conditions and for the same sort of wages as in India and Pakistan. It honestly feels like we are striving to become a third world country.

So back to my original point. Renegotiate the EU deal (unlikely), leave the EU (not that likely) or bring benefits down in line (most likely).

I didn't say it was right or even good just that's the balance of probabilities. For one thing, there's no money to raise benefits across the EU. For another, the German economy is rolling because they cut back decades ago, including wages. That's how they became so competitive, at least in part.

Lessons from Germany's Economic Boom - Forbes

The French economy is pretty much a basket case because it failed to take on board what was inevitable.

Again, I'm not saying it's good or right. I'm not endorsing anything. It's an observation of how it is and is likely to be for some time.
 
I wouldn't say that Germany have been cutting back for decades; 10 to 15 years ago I was in regular contact with DGB (Deutscher Gerwerkshaftsbund) and IGMetall Senior Reps (Probably the 2 largest and strongest Unions in Germay) on a regular basis and their conditions and wages exceeded the equivalent jobs over here and they weilded a lot more clout than our Unions, but the German Management were much more ready to negotiate. I am quite sure that since then the conditions and wages in real terms have not dropped as much as in Britain.
What has happened in Germany in the last few years and was beginning to occur while I was still in contact with DGB and IGMetall was that small local Unions were appearing and they did not affiliate or negotiate along with the larger Unions, this apparently has been leading to more difficulties in agreeing national standards which has been worrying German Industries. As reported by the Guardian back in 2012 :: Germany's unions: a model for Britain or a disaster waiting to happen? | Sherelle Jacobs | Comment is free | theguardian.com
I understand that you are not saying that it is good or right, and to be honest I agree with your observation that bringing benefits down is the most likely outcome and that things are likely to continue in the same vein for quite some time.
Which for me and no doubt many others it will mean that I will cast a vote for UKIP ; the sort of political party that I would never have considered before, but now believe are the only viable option.
 
I think its a sham for channel to air such a TV shows. But on the other hand, it does show how are system is flawed. It is so easy for an teen/youth who is rebellious to obtain council payed room, just because they don't get along with their parents. In some cases such as force marriage its a legitimate system, but for a teen who wants go out late at night its not.
 
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