newbies technical guide for C/S

OK problem sorted CCcam needs to be at level 2.1.3.
 
First of all thanks Bod for a cracking tutorial, well worth the read and a lot learned and understood.

question:

what sort of bandwidth is going to be used per shared box outside of your own private network?

reason for asking is i can see that on a home broadband network the upload is a lot lower than on download so for example how many boxes could the upload cope with. reason for asking is how would you go about upstreaming the data to a server on the net then downstreaming from there can this be done. what about latency?

SB
 
With cardsharing generally, the bandwidth requirements are very low, say 1k/bit sec, so theoretically a slowish broadband of 256kbit/sec upload could cope with over 200 users - certainly far more than a single card would allow !!!

The reliablility of the server/internet connection is usually far more important than the bandwith these days. Domestic ADSL connections especially are prone to frequent dropouts as the line terminates/renegotiates or the local contention limits are reached and this causes a good proportion of glitch type problems.

Upstreaming CS data to an intermediate external server is pointless for a small setup. All it does is add extra latency. Absolutely no traffic or workload would be reduced from the primary card/server.

The external server only makes sense for professional type CS systems that run in a rather different way to home CS systems. These effectively use a 'bank' of cards to decrypt everything from the feed and then 'cache' the results for all clients (clients never actually talk to a real card - only the cache)
 
thanks for that Nozzer interesting stuff all this, so with what your saying a standard upstream of 2mb is fine, i thought as you had only 1 stream uploading to say a server then the server sending out the stream to clients over a backbone it would have been more reliable and faster.
thanks

SB
 
thanks for that Nozzer interesting stuff all this, so with what your saying a standard upstream of 2mb is fine

A reliable 2Meg down/128k up would be more than adequate for the majority of small 'local' cardservers. You'd obviously need to be a bit careful of what else you use the link for unless you have a router capable of setting 'quality of service' on certain protocols/ports

Reliability is the key here. Its no good trying to run on a line that constantly drops out or has other routing problems. If clients have high ping times then you may as well forget it !

i thought as you had only 1 stream uploading to say a server then the server sending out the stream to clients over a backbone it would have been more reliable and faster.

With small setups thats not really how it works. Every client thats on a different channel would require to send their request directly to the card. Only clients running on the same channel would be able to cache (obviously the first request from any channel goes to the card to generate a response). There may be a small benefit if all your clients watch the same few channels (ie, high cache hit rate) but if you cant guarantee that then its more of a hinderance as you add the latency of the extra internet journey and middle-man processing.
 
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Hi Again Nozzer ive done quite a bit of reading this last 3 or 4 days, but i thought the way to go over this was CSP with the cache, i understand that like you say if clients watch a few regular channels, then this would be what its for, for example united match on Sli sports 1 everyone hit there remote and freeze but if there was a cache after the first request, you would be fine and no freezing, and if yo ucan stop 95% of the freezing then less complaints, also looking at the QOS on routers is there any that are known to offer this, or again could this be done using an ethernet switch of some sort with QOS service software

SB
 
Yes, thats effectively what caching does. Once the cw is cached for a particular channel then you could theoretically support an almost infinite number of clients on that one channel. The big servers exploit this caching by 'locally' generating a cw for each and every channel guaranteeing that there will be a cache hit for every client request (this, of course, takes quite a few cards to accomplish in real-time).

Nearly all servers have a cache of one form or another, even those running on a dreambox or similar. There's no point in repeating an ecm to a card if there's already a valid response available so external servers should rarely be necessary on a small setup.

Whether you would derive a benefit from an external server is only something you can answer by analysing your client behaviour over time.

With routers some have QOS and some dont. The most flexible ones I know of are the ones the run the larger variants of dd-wrt (eg earlier revisions of linksys wrt54g). The configs on these types is really only limited by your ability to control linux !
 
Thanks for that Nozzer, so you say external servers shouldn't be used unless the need is for a bigger setup, i understand that, i also understand that certain boxes like VU+ and the likes have hdd's and 400mhz processors is the CSP software capable of being run on them, instead of on a seperate CSP server, or i suppose the opposite would be true and leave the DBox out altogether and make just one PC type unit running linix with multiple cardreaders installed is this possible also. One last thing obviously it must be being done, what do you think of people running this over the sky adsl broadband, and is there any protection using a homebase CSP server as regards anonimity, or would web based CSP be better for that.

TIA
SB
 
Personally, I probably wouldn't run something like csp on a dreambox or similar. Its something thats not really required for a simple one card type setup. as I said, most CS software has some form of basic caching so there's no need to add another layer on top.

PC units can run fine as cardservers if you want to set them up. Its pretty easy in either linux or windows to set such a system up although, for a small system, i'd question the need for something seperate when a dreambox etc can do the job perfectly well (and usually MUCH quieter).

I'm sure technically Sky broadband would work ok, or at least as reliably as any other ADSL. Such things mostly depend on your distance from the exchange etc. Generally, if you had unreliable ADSL under one supplier it will be unreliably under any other. As regards to server protection, there's not really too much you can do on the server end. The clients obviously have to be able to connect so ANYBODY that has that information is a potential security problem. Its much easier to protect a client, they can connect through a remote VPN and effectively completely hide what they are connecting to from any 'snoopers'.
 
Hi Nozzer, i understand a bit what your saying as regards clients connecting through VPN do you mean like dyndns.org, or am i being a bit thick here thats just dns for your ip, what like ivpn.net or something similar, anon proxy etc

SB
 
how do i do it if i want share my tring card do i need key of card or somethin?
 
righto Nozzer if your still about m8 any chance of a couple more questions, or where i can find everything related to linux boxes, don't get me wrong i initially only want to make a set up for friends and family, but seeing i'm a bit of a geek i want everything that could be made for the set up such as VPN and own linux box for CSP and i want it to be secure, basically i want to learn all there is to know so that i can build for other people if they want this sort of thing i aint that bothered about TV myself as i'm sat at one of these PC's in my day job, and still sat at one at night, messing around and learning stuff, so if there would be an more tutorials or help about VPN CSP and linux boxes and love to know more if you have any links i would say PM me with the details but i think the pm system on here is public isnt it.

SB
 
I'm not going to go into details because, tbh, there's loads of sites with specific info on setting up a cardshare server and i'm more about discussing general principles rather than actual implementations.

Generally though, a simple firends/family setup would consist of nothing more than a dreambox or perhaps a PC with connected cardslot and some very standard software you can download from quite a few places. As far as security is concerned you dont really need anything more than that supplied by the downloaded software as long as you are inviting ONLY friends and relatves (ie people you trust) and you conigure the software away from its default settings (ie proper usernames/passwords, change connection port numbers, change encryption key etc). The security is really in the anonymity of your server !

Once you start inviting paying clients who you dont know/trust or even peering with other servers, then thats a whole new kettle of fish.........

btw, pm traffic on this board is private between the parties involved but also note that I personally rarely respond to non board related (ie moderation) pm's !!!
 
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Hi all,

am thinking of getting into the whole cardsharing thing, very good post by the way, cleared a few things up.

just one question though........

Do i need to have a valid subscription card in the dreambox (havent bought a dreambox yet) to enable me to use cardsharing?

Or do i just need the dreambox connected upto the sat dish / home network & then follow a setup guied?

thanks

Steve.......
 
Hi all,

am thinking of getting into the whole cardsharing thing, very good post by the way, cleared a few things up.

just one question though........

Do i need to have a valid subscription card in the dreambox (havent bought a dreambox yet) to enable me to use cardsharing?

Or do i just need the dreambox connected upto the sat dish / home network & then follow a setup guied?

thanks

Steve.......

yep, you need a valid activated card plus the boxkey from the paired sly receiver too. without this the server will not work :)
 
Hello

you have write everything super, in details, my english isnt so good because i am from Austria.
But what i read on this page it was very good explain from you than you.

Post has to be like that.

everyone who read my text find eng mistakes you guys can make correction i dont mind,
we all want learn from each other.
 
Hi, im very new to this and confidence is what i need, this an excellent tutorial for the dreambox and i understand the concept well sort off im just a little put that tutorial may not work for 2 openbox s9 recievers(in the home), i know the concept is much of the same but its left me wondering how much is, is it possible you could do a tutorial on these two recievers step by step please.
Thanks kev
 
Hi, is this all i need to do, server to client, would i need to port forward as suggested below. Thanks Kev

Press menu
Scroll down to Network Local Setting
Press ok on remote
Arrow right to Newcamd Server Settings
Press ok on remote
Enter newcamd server parameter
Servversetting -ON-
TCP Port -eg. 13000- this MUST be forwarded in your router
Des Key 01020304055060708091011121314 Can be change to your own
Add user in Newcamd server User manager with green button on remote
Add username password allow emm yes
Press yellow to save the configuration .

Now box is setup for server with 1 client and a reboot is always a good idea .

In the Client box with CCcam its the N: line to use for acces the server eg N: seerver_ip_or_dns Port user password 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 256
 
Am thinking of going along the CS route with $1y, but wanted to know that if the card is plugged into the DM box for example, will it still be "active" on their system? That is to say, will they know it is not in a sky digibox or will they at least know it's active so they don't cancel the sub for "non-usage"?

Also, from a quick skim read of the OP, i take it that the "host" doesn't need anything more than a box and a connection to the net...right? I was always under the impression that they would need a constantly connected server (which I thought was a PC connected to a box).

Thanks
 
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